Need help with foot technique....

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

Hey guys as Most of you do not know I have been playing drums for about 4 years and I have developed an incredibly bad habit. When playing my double bass pedals I tend to play heel up and use my toe to push down on the pedals. So my drum teacher has told me I should get out of this habit ASAP. Is there any different technique I should try to maintain. Since it's been four years it's going to be difficult to try a different technique. Do you guys recommend I try a different technique or stay with my heel up one?

[Mrs_Smith]

Well, what you want to do is use the section below your toes - keep your feet firmly on your pedal and do you thang. For now just practice, keep your feet firmly planted on those pedals and try what I suggested :P
When I'm not at my kit, I listen to music and double bass to that; I find that I'm getting such a lot of practice with my double bassing that I'm actually becoming better at it in speed and endurance. Listen to some Morbid Angel and practice to that - Pete's double bassing is superb

[Xoferif09]

Wait, how is that bad? I do that a lot. If i'm doing something wrong I would like to know.

[Mrs_Smith]

Imo, if you have a teacher then he is going to try to correct your behaviour, irrespective if it works for you or not. The teacher knows that this particular type of behaviour could cause strain and possibly long-term damage.

Firefox, if it works for you and you are not getting strain from it then that's cool. However you should try my method. This way you're able to alternate foot positions on your pedal whereas when you use your toes it becomes a lot more difficult. It's only common sense. I'm not saying I could do this from day 1. It takes a lot of practice to get it right. I did the same thing Lucius did when I started because it was new and I didn't have a grip on things (pedals, for instance lol)

[Xoferif09]

Imo, if you have a teacher then he is going to try to correct your behaviour, irrespective if it works for you or not. The teacher knows that this particular type of behaviour could cause strain and possibly long-term damage.

Firefox, if it works for you and you are not getting strain from it then that's cool. However you should try my method. This way you're able to alternate foot positions on your pedal whereas when you use your toes it becomes a lot more difficult. It's only common sense. I'm not saying I could do this from day 1. It takes a lot of practice to get it right. I did the same thing Lucius did when I started because it was new and I didn't have a grip on things (pedals, for instance lol)

Well, I don't do it all the time. Like, when I am going fast (i have no idea of the bpm) I kinda use the flat foot method. My foot stay level about halfway up the foot board. But then as I stay on it longer my feet kind of naturally go down on the foot board and my heel goes higher. I'm really not sure if its my toes, or I rest the ball of my foot near the bottom of the pedal. Maybe next time I play I will look. Lol

[Mrs_Smith]

Well, I don't do it all the time. Like, when I am going fast (i have no idea of the bpm) I kinda use the flat foot method. My foot stay level about halfway up the foot board. But then as I stay on it longer my feet kind of naturally go down on the foot board and my heel goes higher. I'm really not sure if its my toes, or I rest the ball of my foot near the bottom of the pedal. Maybe next time I play I will look. Lol

Hahaha you're doing it right, then. It's natural for your foot to rest - don't worry you aren't putting any pressure on your toes themselves.

[Drumbledore]

Check out some of these guys:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xshrk4D0Rw&feature=player_detailpage"]‪thomas lang - creative controll 4.mpg‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxZJ5eDRvEg&feature=player_detailpage"]‪John Blackwell: Foot Technique Lesson‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf-w4i1iy58"]‪Drum Lessons 1‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

And watch this from the 2:44 mark.....
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdaxu5rUjcQ"]‪Jeff Porcaro - 2‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

Cool thanks guys appreciate it lots. I notice when I seem to play faster my toes can't keep up and move all around the footboard. Should I try a different technique all together.

[Russ]

You might need some posture readjustment. It sounds as though your leaning forward, and in that position the foot is where the weight goes to keep balance so as not to fall in that direction. What you need to do is work on your posture, keep your back straight and your shoulders square. In this position you'll find yourself able to play for longer periods of time because it doesn't put stress or strain on you as much as leaning forward or back does.

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

Just to tell you all I'm having so much trouble with this. Whenever I play heel up and push down with my toes my foot comes completely off the pedal so I lose lots of time when trying to bring it back down what do I do. :(

[kyle102565]

a simple adjustment on the pedal or throne height may help, if its keeping you off the time signature then yes it needs correction. ive had a few bad habits that have been fixed by minor adjustments. this only happens playing a double pedal right?

[Russ]

I want to ask you something. How long in a rough estimate would you say you have been playing? You will find more and more that it takes time to develop a good and solid muscle in your leg, and a good technique. It doesn't happen overnight, spend some time playing songs and in time you will get it. In fact, i've got some homework for you to try since you're interested in heel up and also because this is what has worked for me. I want you when you are not drumming to try a little exercise. You may either jog in place, or raise your hands till they face forward and then alternate your knees so they rise up and touch your palms. I have done this exercise in tae kwon do many times and found it very effective in my classes, but it's very good to build up an ability to stay light on your feet. Jump rope is also a fun way to do this! The idea is to really get that cardio working and get your feet into the up and down motion, feel light and very mobile, no problems. Make sure you do not hold your breath. I wish you all the best in your development.

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

So u want me to jump rope, as in skipping. Ourite if that helps I'll do anything. Ill adjust my throne and pedals tomorrow. Oh.....I've been playing for about 4 years roughly. But have only had my double pedals for 3 weeks

[Dad3353]

Good evening, Lucius...
I'm slightly confused as to where your problem lies. Are you saying that this 'heel-up' is only since the acquisition of a double pedal? When playing single, is your kick foot heel down, normally?
I would suggest, whatever the case, that, firstly, playing a double (or a single, for that matter...) cannot be done in 3 weeks. There needs to be a serious amount of work (pleasureable, but work nevertheless...) on basic rudiments. Double pedal playing is not about thrashing at high speeds, most of all at the start. Technique and practice will, indeed, allow fast BPMs, but only later, when the time has been put in on rudiments. I would suggest listening to your teacher (I assume he/she has given you satisfaction over the years..?).
There are many drummers using 'heel up', as there are equally those who prefer 'heel down', but the ideal situation would, imho, be to be able to use either, depending on what the music requires. One should not be limited to any one method, as both are useful, but the basics should be done as your teacher asks; you can then experiment with other techniques after having done your 'official' homework.
Whatever you decide, listen to the doc about hurting yourself, and do your work as slowly as is necessary, not as fast as you would like. Speed comes faster that way, as I'm sure all others here will confirm.
Patience; double pedalling is very satisfying; more than doubly so when mastered.

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

Cool thanks dad. And if your confused I'll sum it up right now. The problem I am having is that my teacher is telling me to keep my heel down and try it that way. But I prefer playing heel up and have been playing it that way for 4 straight years. I am also having trouble because my feet keep coming off the pedals and sliding off the pedals.

[Dad3353]

Good afternoon, Lucius...
The choice seems simple, then: either try what your teacher asks, or stop paying for advice you're not willing to take, and do as you wish.
As for the foot slippage, I can only suggest rubber soles. I can't really imagine such a scenario (but then again, I play heel down, so what would I know..?).
No disrespect, but I really wonder what you have a teacher for..?

[kyle102565]

you can lead a horse to water.....
i play heel up, slide and heel down depending on what im playing. heel down for slow bluesy stuff, heel up for fast tempo, slide when im in the groove. if you want to get better at heel down perhaps some slower stuff will help. merely instructing you to play heeldown without any other tips or lessons on getting there is poor instruction. try it and give it time, it can take a long time to change a style of playing. ive tried for months to play traditional grip and it just doesnt feel right. but i try, hence no failure.
keep your chin up and your mind open and youll be fine.

[LL70]

When I first got my double pedals I would sit down and after 10 seconds I would walk away. It just felt so different. It does get easier with more practice.

I would just practice with the pedals and try not to think about if your playing heel up or down but only focus on how high your foot is. Try to be aware if your lifting your foot up too much while your playing and start out really slow until you get used to it. Also I agree about shoes or sneakers with rubber soles or playing barefoot so your foot doesn't slip.

[jordison515]

Hey guys as Most of you do not know I have been playing drums for about 4 years and I have developed an incredibly bad habit. When playing my double bass pedals I tend to play heel up and use my toe to push down on the pedals. So my drum teacher has told me I should get out of this habit ASAP. Is there any different technique I should try to maintain. Since it's been four years it's going to be difficult to try a different technique. Do you guys recommend I try a different technique or stay with my heel up one?

I do this sometimes, but not when i'm doing fast double bass, but sometimes when I just mess around. However, what you're asking is that should you get rid of heel up? No. Just change the way you go about doing heel up. Mrs. Smith hit the nail on the head, really. The teacher will try to change the way you do something because it's not proper technique. My teacher told me heel down was faster, and I was like, dude, my foot is almost bigger than the pedal! There's no way in heck i'm playing heel down. I'll lead with my left foot and do all the technical stuff but there's no way I'm playing heel down. And he was ok with that. I don't think using your toe will give you strain, as long as you use your ankles, etc.

P.S. Do you wear shoes when you play? I saw your post about your feet slipping.

[marko138]

Derek Roddy said something at a clinic this week that sticks out to me. He said if you're getting the sound you want then you have the correct technique. Meaning, if you're playing the way you like keep doing it. It doesn't matter what the technique is.

[Drumbledore]

Derek Roddy said something at a clinic this week that sticks out to me. He said if you're getting the sound you want then you have the correct technique. Meaning, if you're playing the way you like keep doing it. It doesn't matter what the technique is.

Spot on Marko. And that's sometimes can be the reason why some guys shy away from lessons....it can be sometimes a teacher's insistence to use a certain technique that works for them and a very narrow point of view, instead of being more open to feedback from a student and engaging in dialogue. If I was to think for one moment in that way, I'd rather hang up my sticks as a tutor and do something else. I don't think a week goes by without me learning something new and different from some student or seeing a mate play. But that Derek Roddy quote hits the nail right on the head.

[Dad3353]

Good evening, all...
I wouldn't want to spoil this dialogue, and many wise comments have been put forward, but, to quote Lucius' own posts...

...I have developed an incredibly bad habit... I tend to play heel up...drum teacher has told me I should get out of this habit ASAP. Is there any different technique I should try to maintain...Do you guys recommend I try a different technique or stay with my heel up one?

....my toes can't keep up and move all around the footboard. Should I try a different technique all together...

Just to tell you all I'm having so much trouble with this. Whenever I play heel up and push down with my toes my foot comes completely off the pedal so I lose lots of time when trying to bring it back down what do I do...

But have only had my double pedals for 3 weeks...

...having trouble because my feet keep coming off the pedals and sliding off the pedals

...it doesn't sound, to me, as though our young friend is succeeding with this technique. There is still time (3 weeks is nothing in a drummers career...) to at least loyally try out what the teacher is suggesting (is this a recent teacher, or has he/she allowed your heel-up for the past 4 years..?). There is nothing wrong with heel-up itself, I am quite aware of the many excellent advocates and practitioners, and would agree with the quote "If you're playing the way you like keep doing it. It doesn't matter what the technique is", but this doesn't square with what Lucius seems to be expressing. I still don't see the point of having a teacher (who is presumably trying to help the student...) and sticking to the problem, whilst asking for advice on the web. My advice, for what (very..) little it's worth, remains... "If it works for you, fine, if not, try honestly and loyally doing what your teacher suggests".
I still think that 3 weeks is too short a time to be trying out 'blasts' etc, and that a couple of months of slowly building up expertise will pay enormous dividends, as well as, perhaps, maintaining healthy muscles and tendons, instead of preparing for all sorts of future miseries.
Sorry to sound a tad 'grouchy', and sincerely hope that Lucius gets enormous pleasure from these new pedals. Keep us posted as to evolution, perhaps..?

[Xoferif09]

I'm thinking heel up, isn't bad for using a double pedal. Depending on what you want to play. But if your style calls for heel down and more finesse, then why the double pedal?

But, if you are having problems with control, just play a speed that you can control. Just play it, and play it, and play it, and play it. I used to sit behind my kit at one tempo until I built up the control to go a little faster. I still can't play blinding fast speeds, but I can go pretty quick. When I try to do stuff faster than my feet can control, I get really sloppy. I imagine everyone does.

[Lucius-Borich-JR]

I'm thinking heel up, isn't bad for using a double pedal. Depending on what you want to play. But if your style calls for heel down and more finesse, then why the double pedal?

But, if you are having problems with control, just play a speed that you can control. Just play it, and play it, and play it, and play it. I used to sit behind my kit at one tempo until I built up the control to go a little faster. I still can't play blinding fast speeds, but I can go pretty quick. When I try to do stuff faster than my feet can control, I get really sloppy. I imagine everyone does.

Thanks for more advice everyone.'I think I will just keep doing this ^^^^ for a while. And I have had my teacher teach me for 2 years and he doesn't seem to think I can play heel up for everything is this true??

[Dad3353]

Yes, it's true. Why should you doubt it..? Both techniques are more than useful. Both, not one or the other. Each has its use and advantage, with associated downside (such is life...). I suspect that your teacher knows this, too. Once you get the work done (and reap the benefit, of course...), then you also will know.
Hope this helps...