E kit or cheap drum mics?

[Andy_TAMA]

Ok, I'm only 17 and very short on cash. I've seen some drum mic sets on the Internet for between £100 - £150 which is as much as I can afford to spend. I currently have a yamaha dtxplorer e kit and my acoustic kit. When I record it's just for my band to show our friends and remember stuff for the next rehearsal (as they can be few and far between nowadays).
As I see it I have 3 options:
1: Continue as I am currently doing and use two jack leads into my audio interface and getting a stereo D.I. from my e kit into GarageBand. Which gives an alright sound but you can tell it's not real as it's not the best quality e kit in the world.
2: Purchase a cheap (£100 - £150) set of drum mics and use close mic recording to capture the sound. Bearing in mind my kit is in my music room which is fairly large and reverby. Or,
3: Purchasing a midi cable and using the midi from my e kit in GarageBand, but on the rear occasions when I've created a drum part in Sibelius and exported the midi into GarageBand the sound hasn't been that convincing but that may be down to me leaving the velocities the same and note timings exact, which if I played the midi into garageband I wouldn't have the same problem.
Which of these 3 would get me the best sound? Also I'm a newbie to recording so if there's anyone out there with more knowledge or experience who could offer me advice please do.
Thanks

[trickg]

If you are recording for practice purposes, there is a lot you can do with cheap mics and some creative mic technique. I read an article where U2 used to do a very basic mic set up where they were using a bass drum mic and one overhead for the whole kit - it depends on the sound you are looking for though. You can get a cheap set of CAD drum mics for around $100 US on a good deal sometimes, and that's a whole 7 piece set. I've done some basic recording using a 4-mic setup too with a bass drum, snare drum and two overheads.

Your call - you could do triggering with the E kit, but you'll never quite catch the same kind of dynamics you will with your accoustic setup. Even with a room with lots of reverb, with some close miking and some compression and EQ, (you have Garage Band so you should be able to do both) I don't see that as being a big issue - you won't get a studio quality recording, but it will be good enough for what you are trying to do IMO.

[Andy_TAMA]

Thanks trickg,
I'm seriously considering Buying some drum mics. At the moment though I own two condenser mics, just cheap ones that cost about £40 each that I use for recording vocals and acoustic guitar. If I was to set up the kit with 2 mics how would you says the best way to do that? Would it be best to have 1 overhead and one on the bass drum or possibly 2 overheads? Maybe even one on the bass drum and one on the snare? I don't know lol.

[late8]

Thanks trickg,
I'm seriously considering Buying some drum mics. At the moment though I own two condenser mics, just cheap ones that cost about £40 each that I use for recording vocals and acoustic guitar. If I was to set up the kit with 2 mics how would you says the best way to do that? Would it be best to have 1 overhead and one on the bass drum or possibly 2 overheads? Maybe even one on the bass drum and one on the snare? I don't know lol.

2 mic's overhead with X-Y position about 16" above the tallest crash (1 inch separation between mics):







If you play on carpet and find the sound too "dead" try slipping a piece of wood paneling under the kit to give the resonance some "bite".

[trickg]

If you were going to use just those two condensers, I'd say to put one in front of the bass drum and one over the top of the kit, slightly behind it and angled toward the toms.

That won't give you the "best" sound, but it will be better than nothing.

Mics are definitely an investment - anything "good" typically costs a fair chunk of change. There was an interesting thread today talking about bass drum mics and the Superlux mics were brought up. They aren't that common here in the US, but you might have some luck getting a good deal over there. I guess they are decent quality and not too hard on the wallet.

As it is, the only bass drum mic I've currently got is a pretty lackluster CAD KM212 bass drum mic - the tom mics are ok, but that bass drum mic has to go. The overhead condensers aren't the best either, but I've got a pair of Audix Fusion 15 small diaphragm condensers for that. All in good time I suppose.

[Andy_TAMA]

That looks good, I'll give it a try won't the bass drum sound quiet or distant like that though? Also if I recorded it as a single stereo track how would you advise EQing it to get the best sound?
Cheers

[late8]

The X-Y 2 mic overhead position is the best solution in my opinion to keep mic phasing issues in check. The best solution to mic a kick drum is to use a kick drum specific mic but if you are on a budget and can only afford a few mics at a time, I'd suggest using overheads to get the complete kit and avoid mic phasing issues. Since we can't link to other website on DC, here's a quote from another website explaining phasing issues with mics. It's not too technical to understand and it's the only thing I could find that wasn't too technical.

Cut and Paste:

quote-

To understand the idea of phase cancellation, you really need to understand a little bit about wave interference. For example, think of the sound coming out of your amp as a perfect sine wave with a wavelength (one period, ie ~) of two feet. If you record that sine wave with two microphones at different distances (let assume in a straight line) from the source, the wave is going to get to them at different times, right? So, if the second mic is exactly two feet behind the first one, even though the sound will arrive at the second mic later (ie delayed) the peaks and valleys of the sine wave from the second mic will line up with those recorded by the first mic.

That interference would be 100% constructive and would act like a small delay and increase the amplitude of the combined signal. On the other hand, if you placed the second mic exactly one foot behind the first one, the sound arriving at the second mic would still be delayed, but by only half a wavelength. In this case, all the peaks from the first mic would line up with all the valleys recorded by the second mic and you would have 100% destructive interference. In this ideal case, you would get complete phase cancellation and hear absolutely nothing.


end quote-

EQ'ing: If you are using a mixer then set the EQ at unity "U" for the high ,mids and lows at which point when you dump the track into a DAW (digital audio work station) you'll have more flexability for eq'ing in the computer with basically a "flat" sound before final rendering.

[Andy_TAMA]

That's great thanks, I'll give it a try over the next few days aswell as a couple of other positions and see what sounds best. I don't think I'll buy a full set of drum mics but consider using my two condensers and possibly buy a kick drum mic then maybe at a later date buy something for the snare. This has been a great help thanks guys

[nucjd]

late8 is dead on correct. In small rooms (of which most of us have ) use the x-y overhead setup. Otherwise, you will phase your mics and will be disappointed with your sound.

[Dad3353]

'Twas I posted the elogious recommendation for the Superlux Bass drum mic (FK-2, part of the Superlux DRK-F5H3 8 Drum Mic Kit set...), which I have been using for modest home studio and smaller gigs for a number of years. There are much better mics available for drums, but not at prices for the common mortal. I got a good deal at the time for my set (don't remember off-hand the exact figure, but less than 200€, shipped to France...). The kick mic is well worth its low price as an individual mic, the statics are large 1" capsules, which I use as overheads of course, but equally for acoustic guitar or ambiant capture. The least worthy would be the snare mic; it's hard to beat an SM57 anyway, and they're easy enough to find (beware of copies, however...).
For your specific needs as in the OP, you didn't mention mixing. Multi-mic drum cover requires an inordinate amount of cables going into a minimum 8-input console. This can be messy, and is a 'bind' when tearing down for gigging, only to be re-installed the next day.
If it's for a demo, quick and easy, I would use the 1 overhead, 1 bass drum, and perhaps 1 snare (optional...). Careful mic positioning with only that should give an excellent result (how did our ancestors do it, do you think..?). A bit of patience, and acquired experience, will give the results looked for.
Hope this helps...

[itchie]

if x/y is no good in your room ..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ"]‪Recorderman Overhead Drum technique‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

[Russ]

Spend a little on some sound treatment for the room, especially if it's a larger one. If you plan on getting a fullscale mic kit for the least amount of money, i've been fairly happy with my samsons. You might give them a try.

[late8]

Here's an example of a home studio recording my band recorded today at band practice. We used X-Y overhead mic positioning for the drums (2x audio-technica) and added a third mic (SM57) in the middle of the "Y" position:







The snare and hats were mic'd with MK-12 large diaphram condenser mics:

[late8]

One of the guys in my band owns a garage that's converted into a home studio with a really nice Yamaha Stage Custom 7pc single bass kit. We mic'd the kick with a Shure Beta52. The vocal mics were Shure SM58



I use the kit at band practice and it's also being used to record the drum tracks for the demo we started working on today. The DAW is Cool Edit Pro and the digital mixer is a 24 track Roland model.





Here's a rough mix of the song we recorded today for our demo. The entire band was together in one room and the instruments and vocals were recorded together. 6 channels for drums (3 overhead, 1 snare, 1 hat, and 1 kick) and 5 vocal channels.
Edit: Bass, organ, and keys were DI and 3x guitars amp's were mic'd with Beta SM57.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQDjgRptBo0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQDjgRptBo0[/ame]

[nucjd]

Enjoyed the pics and mix late8. Wow, cool edit pro. That brings back memories. Y'alls sound is smooth and organic. I really like it.

[late8]

Enjoyed the pics and mix late8. Wow, cool edit pro. That brings back memories. Y'alls sound is smooth and organic. I really like it.

Thanks nucjd! I appreciate the kind words!

[kaosotis]

Sounds good Late! We used Cool Edit Pro for YEARS! I know have Presonus Studio Artist which came free with an interface.

At the practice we're using for a while, there's really only room for one overhead. So we did overhead, kick, snare. I ended up putting the overhead over the FT at about a 45 degree angle to hopefully pick toms, cymbals, hats, etc.. It seemed to work well, but other recommendations? SHould I try to get the XY going as you showed? I usually place one overhead over the ride point towards the hats/snare and one over the hats pointing towards the FT/ride. I've never had them next to each other.

[late8]

Sounds good Late! We used Cool Edit Pro for YEARS! I know have Presonus Studio Artist which came free with an interface.

At the practice we're using for a while, there's really only room for one overhead. So we did overhead, kick, snare. I ended up putting the overhead over the FT at about a 45 degree angle to hopefully pick toms, cymbals, hats, etc.. It seemed to work well, but other recommendations? SHould I try to get the XY going as you showed? I usually place one overhead over the ride point towards the hats/snare and one over the hats pointing towards the FT/ride. I've never had them next to each other.

Thanks Jesse! Try the X-Y overhead and see if you notice a difference in the overall sound of the kit. We added a third mic to the overhead config after listening to the drums. The rough mix I posted still has major EQ'ing and mixing that still needs to be done to the tracks especially the drums.

[Andy_TAMA]

Well I finally got round to trying some mic positions out and the best sounding one i found was with one overhead and one on my bass drum, otherwise my bass drum sounded very distant. Obviously the downside I had with this is that then I have all my drums on a mono track which is something I'll just have to live with until I can afford another mic in the (hopefully) not too distant future.
Because my drums are in my music room which has a wooden floor and is quite large I used a very 'sophisticated' method of sound proofing which included using my duvet hung around two stools in front of my kit and the back of a sofa behind the kit, which surprisingly actually made a big difference.
I didn't place my overhead directly over the centre of the kit as when I tried this I found that my snare was too loud and the floor tom very quiet so I moved the mic and placed it almost directly over the floor tom. I've included a video with pictures where you can see what I mean.
This version of the song isn't going to be my last, for the actual demo version I'll rerecord the drums and make them a lot better as this time I rushed it and made a few mistakes but it was only to give me a general idea.

The songs an original by my band so let me know what you think of that too
Thanks

[late8]

Sounds great Andy! Good overall mix. Good chops...thanks for sharing!

[kaosotis]

Sounds great Andy! Good overall mix. Good chops...thanks for sharing!

+1, cool tune.

[nucjd]

Andy, when you get a chance do me a favor. Move your kit out of the corner of your room (ideally in about the 1/3 position of the room a little off center) and shoot some test tracks and compare them to this one and let me know what you think. Where your kit is sitting is where you are getting massive bass build up in a room. To do a test have someone play your drums and go stick your head in the corner of the room and listen to the difference in the sound.

[Andy_TAMA]

Ok, I'll try it when I get chance. Whilst we're talking about positioning, if I'm in a rectangular room am I better having the drums facing the length of the room or the width if you know what I mean? Or does it not really make a difference?

[nucjd]

Makes a HUGE difference. Turn your kit a slight angle and do not face a wall directly as you will worsen the standing waves in your room and have monster phasing issues. Good thinking Andy. A bass drum standing wave takes 28 feet to work out so unless your room is 30 feet long, 30 feet wide and 30 feet high you are going to have standing waves and modes in your room to deal with. Room treatments are key and I see you are already trying to tackle this issue. Good for you.

[late8]

Andy sorry for the double post but, here's an example of another home studio recordings with another band recorded in a converted garage but the conditions were less desireable to use an acoustic kit. The recording equipment was an Alesis ADAT recorder that used SVHS tape a recording medium and the mix was done with headphones lol.



The main vocal track was recorded in real time as the entire band recorded the song and unfortunately the drums were undermixed for this test track. I appreciated the ekit in this situation only for the sake of the ease of having no mics or room acoustic issues to deal with otherwise I'd lean towards working a room with mics and playing an acoustic kit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl-oIx6BE78"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl-oIx6BE78[/ame]