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Thread: Double/Triple

  1. #1

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    Default Double/Triple

    Ok - so those who know me know that I've been drumming somewhere around 8 months (with a few breaks here and there due to time constraints/financial woes). That being said, I have SUCH a hard time with doubles and triples mainly because I have SUCH a hard time letting my fingers work the stick. This is not something I haven't practiced religiously - in fact I'm probably a little psychotic in trying to get the bounce down pat but I just can't seem to manage it. I've tried different grips - german, french, trad, etc and nothing seems to work for me. It's almost like my fingers just don't want to do it. My latest attempt has been to grip the stick in a typical match grip and then use my middle and ring fingers to bounce with my pink tucked into my palm. Despite that it's very unorthodox, I've found that I do my best with this grip - but it's still subpar.

    My teacher has gone over and over it with me and has tried to give me pointers and put things a new way but he says my grips are fine, posture is fine, etc but I just can't do it. It's driving me bonkers! All of that being said, did anyone else have a lot of difficulty with this? It seems like people who took up drumming a week ago can do it but I still can't with any proficiency and, frankly, it's defeating. If you have any tips, please let me know. Gracias!
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon2000 View Post
    Ok - so those who know me know that I've been drumming somewhere around 8 months (with a few breaks here and there due to time constraints/financial woes). That being said, I have SUCH a hard time with doubles and triples mainly because I have SUCH a hard time letting my fingers work the stick. This is not something I haven't practiced religiously - in fact I'm probably a little psychotic in trying to get the bounce down pat but I just can't seem to manage it. I've tried different grips - german, french, trad, etc and nothing seems to work for me. It's almost like my fingers just don't want to do it. My latest attempt has been to grip the stick in a typical match grip and then use my middle and ring fingers to bounce with my pink tucked into my palm. Despite that it's very unorthodox, I've found that I do my best with this grip - but it's still subpar.

    My teacher has gone over and over it with me and has tried to give me pointers and put things a new way but he says my grips are fine, posture is fine, etc but I just can't do it. It's driving me bonkers! All of that being said, did anyone else have a lot of difficulty with this? It seems like people who took up drumming a week ago can do it but I still can't with any proficiency and, frankly, it's defeating. If you have any tips, please let me know. Gracias!
    Unless your trying to work on finger technique, you don't NEED to use your fingers. Just keep your fingers wrapped loosely around the stick and use your wrists.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    It's not easy, doing a good double stroke roll. I got so frustrated I went with a press roll with so much pressure on my wrists that actually built up so much wrist strength that I can now do buzz rolls, press rolls, press/double strokes and regular doubles. Took 2 yrs for that development. Kind of a backwards engineering thing.
    When you first start you're training large, slow reacting muscle fibers. Eventually as you speed up or push the speed, the faster reacting fiber muscle groups take over and "fire" for that double stroke wrist flick(when it's uncontrolled is like a spasm.)
    Repetition eventually trains the "spasm" and you're good to go!
    This is similar to the fast ankle/foot "spasm" many drummers use for multiple, fast kick strokes.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Slinglander said it. For me its about using pressure bearing down to get your bounce for fast doubles and triples. With your heads cranked down now those sticks should be bouncing real good without much pressure. It still takes wrist movement to keep control though.

    Try one stick at a time, and just hit the drum but let it bounce, go left then right arm. Try to count and control the roll or rebounds. Just slow it way down. For a double, hit-bounce- pull the stick off. With a triple, hit-bounce-bounce-pull the stick off. Just do it slow and speed up alittle at a time.

    Best I can tell you.

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  5. #5

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Thanks guys - I guess I'm just one of those that it's going to take a while to get it. It's at least nice to know that others have had the issue as slinglander did for a couple of years. And I don't have much issue with press rolls either (I'm not great at them, but I can do them). Maybe I'll just stick with that for a while and work on the doubles and triples as I can.

    And yes, Jafo, you're absolutely correct - the bounce I get off my toms is pretty intense compared to a normally tuned tom.
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  6. #6

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    When I first started working to learn rudimental snare, my early progress was painstakingly slow and I didn't see how I could possibly ever do any of it, much less be able to do it like the guys I knew in the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps. Gradually things started to come around and eventually I got to where I could play pretty well, and even did some Fife and Drum Corps drumming for a civillian FDC after I got out of the Army. It did take a while though. This was a gradual process that took a few years, although to be fair, I wasn't working on it diligently. As a bugler and family man, I'd have periods where I was all over it, and other times when I didn't really touch it. Overall I practice drums much more now than I did back then.
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  7. #7

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Practice on pillows. That will get your fingers involved.

    When I first started, before I had a set of drums, I beat the crap out of pillows.

    Even after I got my first set of drums, at night I still used pillows to practice what sticking I knew. Did it for years and I don't think it hurt my technique (what there is of it) much.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    rick,
    did the pillow thing get you started or just make you faster after you could do a rudiment? My experience is if you didn't have the muscles trained, the pillows actually make you think you're hitting well early on, but switch over to hitting a drum head & you're all over the place, sometimes not hitting at all.
    My point is that the muscles need some tension exercise to get stronger-like a press roll, until you realize that you can be raising the sticks between "presses,"allowing you to convert that press roll into a double stroke. Then double stroke slowly out of the press roll and "voila" you can now do doubles! Actually I worked from buzz (bounce)to press to doubles. Now get to work on the pillows for speed.
    (Also pillow hitting is easier on your hands-no shock thru the sticks from hitting a hard surface, like a pad or drum head.)
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  9. #9

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    rick,
    did the pillow thing get you started or just make you faster after you could do a rudiment? My experience is if you didn't have the muscles trained, the pillows actually make you think you're hitting well early on, but switch over to hitting a drum head & you're all over the place, sometimes not hitting at all.
    My point is that the muscles need some tension exercise to get stronger-like a press roll, until you realize that you can be raising the sticks between "presses,"allowing you to convert that press roll into a double stroke. Then double stroke slowly out of the press roll and "voila" you can now do doubles! Actually I worked from buzz (bounce)to press to doubles. Now get to work on the pillows for speed.
    (Also pillow hitting is easier on your hands-no shock thru the sticks from hitting a hard surface, like a pad or drum head.)

    When I got my first set of drums, I just sat down and played. I don't remember any problems going from pillows to real drums.

    I think, if anything, they helped my speed. From my teen years till my late 50's, I was pretty fast, and being that I never even owned a practice pad, what speed I had, I've always attributed to playing on pillows.

    There are several famous drummers that have said that playing on pillows is what they did. I used to fold them between my legs to make them a little tighter and give me some rebound. As far as I'm concerned, they helped.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Get a nice heavy pair of sticks, and play on a no-bounce surface doing double strokes, parradiddles, etc. I think moongel makes a no-bounce pad thats not too pricey. pillows work too. or your leg.



    Good luck!

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  11. #11

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    Default Re: Double/Triple

    Triple stroke rolls are really hard anyways. Don't beat yourself up over it.
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