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Thread: The Church Drummers Thread

  1. #226

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    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  2. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    If you get put in that drummers cage lookin monstrosity lol, then you are gonna want in ear. Over the ear are good if you can get ones that have noise cancelling feature. I know someone with noise cancelling headphones from sony that have a switch on them that allow you to choose if you want noise cancelling on or off. Those headphones are the way to go if you want over the ears, and the best part there only like 60bucks and they are an excellent pair of over the ears. I have a cheap pair of over the ears, that work great for my situation cuz they don't cut out all of the outside noise, just most of it. But you might want the full noise cancelling, i don't know, its up to you on how much noise you want kept out. But as soon as i think of the name of the headphones I'll tell you.
    DW Remo Vic Firth Zidljian

  3. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    Keep the front glass wall. Put up a heavy curtain of some sort behind it. IMO, putting the drums in a box like that essentially turns it into an e-kit but whether or not that's what you are looking for is up to you.
    Pdp LXE | Pearl ELX Export

    'Give me your fingernails, oh look, the moon' - Todd Sucherman.

  4. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    The Sure IEM's are excellent but very pricey! However, if you want decent, in-ear, monitoring then these will do the trick. I believe they have separate drivers for the bass and treble and they are not overly big so don't look overly obvious.

    If you are going to move toward the drum isolation system you've pictured, then good IEM's with the ability to dial in the exact mix you want is, in my view, essential. I find that I need to be able to hear all my toms just as good as my bass drum/snare when in this situation especially in the church context where toms play an important part in my playing.
    PDP | Black Panther | Sabian |

  5. #230

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    I've been playing the drums in church for years and I still hate it when people get caught up on the " chops " instead of playing the song like its supposed to be played. Does anybody else feel like I do?

  6. #231

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    I do tend to agree with you 501208. IMHO, there is a fine line between making sure you are playing to the best of your ability, and making sure that you are making yourself the "star of the show" - and that's not just about the drums. It applies in any band setting, but even more so in a worship setting, because getting a solo isn't what worship is all about. It's about blending for the benefit of making the music edifying, and leading the people into worship.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  7. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by 501208 View Post
    Does anybody else feel like I do?
    Is this Peter Frampton?

    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    I do tend to agree with you 501208. IMHO, there is a fine line between making sure you are playing to the best of your ability, and making sure that you are making yourself the "star of the show" - and that's not just about the drums. It applies in any band setting, but even more so in a worship setting, because getting a solo isn't what worship is all about. It's about blending for the benefit of making the music edifying, and leading the people into worship.
    +1

  8. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by 501208 View Post
    I've been playing the drums in church for years and I still hate it when people get caught up on the " chops " instead of playing the song like its supposed to be played. Does anybody else feel like I do?
    I think I agree with you, but what's "chops" mean? I've only been in the drum world for about 2 years and haven't learned all the lingo yet

  9. #234

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    Marthared, "chops" are all the rhythms, the rudiments, and all the little things that we do to make the magic happen. The better your chops, the more complete you are as a drummer.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  10. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    Marthared, "chops" are all the rhythms, the rudiments, and all the little things that we do to make the magic happen. The better your chops, the more complete you are as a drummer.
    I agree with the more chops, the more complete drummer, because you're expanding on your craft. But!!!!!!!! The more discipline drummer with a strong pocket that's able to compliment that specific song that they're playing will beat out a drummer with chops any day.

  11. #236

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    True that, but just because a drummer has "chops" doesn't mean that they have to be on display all the time. Knowing when to use what you have is very important in a band setting.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  12. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    Knowing when to use what you have is very important
    .............in drumming as well as everything else in life

  13. #238

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    When i play, i play what the the song needs, no more no less. Recently another drummer has come in, and being nice i decided to let him play on Wednesday nights. Hes got a massive ego, and overplays EVERYTHING. He asked the worship pastor to switch our schedule, putting me on Wednesday night, and him on both Sunday services. When asked why, he said he was the better drummer. The worship pastor then asked him to play a little solo for her, he did. He wasnt bad, just a little sloppy. Then the worship pastor asked me to come up and play one, i held back a little because i dont believe in showing up other musicians, i do that because i know how it feels LOL. After i finshed, he came up and asked me "if you can play like that, then why dont you do that in the services?!" I simply replied that im not putting on a show and walked off. My worship pastor has since taken him off completely.
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  14. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    When i play, i play what the the song needs, no more no less. Recently another drummer has come in, and being nice i decided to let him play on Wednesday nights. Hes got a massive ego, and overplays EVERYTHING. He asked the worship pastor to switch our schedule, putting me on Wednesday night, and him on both Sunday services. When asked why, he said he was the better drummer. The worship pastor then asked him to play a little solo for her, he did. He wasnt bad, just a little sloppy. Then the worship pastor asked me to come up and play one, i held back a little because i dont believe in showing up other musicians, i do that because i know how it feels LOL. After i finshed, he came up and asked me "if you can play like that, then why dont you do that in the services?!" I simply replied that im not putting on a show and walked off. My worship pastor has since taken him off completely.
    There are times when someone will use a ton of "chops" in a song, and it sounds horrible. Not saying that person can't play, they're just not disciplined.

  15. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    When i play, i play what the the song needs, no more no less. Recently another drummer has come in, and being nice i decided to let him play on Wednesday nights. Hes got a massive ego, and overplays EVERYTHING. He asked the worship pastor to switch our schedule, putting me on Wednesday night, and him on both Sunday services. When asked why, he said he was the better drummer. The worship pastor then asked him to play a little solo for her, he did. He wasnt bad, just a little sloppy. Then the worship pastor asked me to come up and play one, i held back a little because i dont believe in showing up other musicians, i do that because i know how it feels LOL. After i finshed, he came up and asked me "if you can play like that, then why dont you do that in the services?!" I simply replied that im not putting on a show and walked off. My worship pastor has since taken him off completely.
    I'm glad to hear how that story worked out. Very little irritates me more than musicians with a big ego.
    DW Remo Vic Firth Zidljian

  16. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by groovearteest View Post
    I'm glad to hear how that story worked out. Very little irritates me more than musicians with a big ego.
    I don't even understand how any musician can get a huge ego. I find that there's soooo much that can keep you humble!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  17. #242
    Lyle Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    I play in this exact aquarium. Yes indeed the sound can reflect off of a hard back wall. What helped us (according to the sound man) was draping a blanket over the top in the back that was still slightly open to allow a bit of light in and some air circulation.

    I HATE this thing. It is hot, you have to have a small fan. It is dark, you'll need a light if you're reading. And the worst, all the sound reflects back to you and it will sound louder. I'm concerned about my hearing because its so loud and since you also will need to use headphones or in-ear monitors. You can barely hear any of the other players or singers without them. Also it's almost impossible to talk with anyone during rehearsal or get someone's attention. Most of the time I don't find much of it very satisfying because you feel so removed from the rest of the band and because the mix and balance just never sounds right.

    Bottom line, I do it not for myself but as a ministry to my church

  18. #243
    Lyle Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    True that, but just because a drummer has "chops" doesn't mean that they have to be on display all the time. Knowing when to use what you have is very important in a band setting.
    Well said Bob. I've been playing for over thirtyfive years and almost all of it in clubs or performances of some sort. Frankly, it took me awhile to remember that I was there to help lead people to worship, not to put on a show or impress the church members OR the band with my chops or my groove.

  19. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    Well said Bob. I've been playing for over thirtyfive years and almost all of it in clubs or performances of some sort. Frankly, it took me awhile to remember that I was there to help lead people to worship, not to put on a show or impress the church members OR the band with my chops or my groove.
    Well, we're all human, and having healthy egos is part of the human programming. Cool that you have found the perfect audience of one.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  20. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    I play in this exact aquarium. Yes indeed the sound can reflect off of a hard back wall. What helped us (according to the sound man) was draping a blanket over the top in the back that was still slightly open to allow a bit of light in and some air circulation.

    I HATE this thing. It is hot, you have to have a small fan. It is dark, you'll need a light if you're reading. And the worst, all the sound reflects back to you and it will sound louder. I'm concerned about my hearing because its so loud and since you also will need to use headphones or in-ear monitors. You can barely hear any of the other players or singers without them. Also it's almost impossible to talk with anyone during rehearsal or get someone's attention. Most of the time I don't find much of it very satisfying because you feel so removed from the rest of the band and because the mix and balance just never sounds right.

    Bottom line, I do it not for myself but as a ministry to my church
    Would you say that this does it's job? How effective do you believe it actually is? I have a nice fan that I have mounted to my rack, most of the time the low setting makes me freeze so I'm not worried about that I'm also going to in-ears, so I'm not worried about my hearing. We're putting up room mics...everywhere. Lol. I should be able to hear people on the platform, as well as the audience fairly well, I'm going to be able to control my mix via Ipad so I'm confident it will be fine as far as that goes. I just don't want them to literally build me a room lol, I'd much rather be stuck with clear glass around me than sheet-rock walls. The people who build these things and make these decisions have no idea what they're doing and don't consult anybody. It's why when I was gone, they built a nice soundbooth... with GLASS AROUND THE TOP!!! I have to walk outside to adjust the sound to what everybody else hears now Common sense is lacking in my church, and I was told I would have nothing to do with the construction of the room, so I'm desperate I have a regular shield up, with reflectors on the top, but I've got 20' of sheetrock wall behind me, and they refuse to put anything behind me because it "looks bad". So it's just reflecting the sound. I pray for widsom for of these idio...I mean the people in charge every day
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  21. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    I don't even understand how any musician can get a huge ego. I find that there's soooo much that can keep you humble!
    Amen. I've been humbled more times than I can count. When I first started playing in church I believed I was hot stuff, and tried to show it. A fellow drummer came up and put me to shame, humbled me, and mentored me a little. It was then I vow'd never to show up another musician again Unless it's a friend I was basically humiliated though, but I'm glad it happened, taught me a lesson I'll never forget, it also helped me realize the true reason that I was there for and why I do what I do now for the right reasons. I recently went through a phase where I was going up on stage out of obligation, and not for the reasons I needed to be up there for. So I stepped down and let the other drummer play a few services while I "thought" about it. I will say, he's come along way, I was fairly impressed. I pray he learned the same lesson I did when I first started off
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  22. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Would you say that this does it's job? How effective do you believe it actually is? I have a nice fan that I have mounted to my rack, most of the time the low setting makes me freeze so I'm not worried about that I'm also going to in-ears, so I'm not worried about my hearing. We're putting up room mics...everywhere. Lol. I should be able to hear people on the platform, as well as the audience fairly well, I'm going to be able to control my mix via Ipad so I'm confident it will be fine as far as that goes. I just don't want them to literally build me a room lol, I'd much rather be stuck with clear glass around me than sheet-rock walls. The people who build these things and make these decisions have no idea what they're doing and don't consult anybody. It's why when I was gone, they built a nice soundbooth... with GLASS AROUND THE TOP!!! I have to walk outside to adjust the sound to what everybody else hears now Common sense is lacking in my church, and I was told I would have nothing to do with the construction of the room, so I'm desperate I have a regular shield up, with reflectors on the top, but I've got 20' of sheetrock wall behind me, and they refuse to put anything behind me because it "looks bad". So it's just reflecting the sound. I pray for widsom for of these idio...I mean the people in charge every day
    Dude I understand your pain, really I do.things is, I'm related to my pastor and things are still hard.
    DW Remo Vic Firth Zidljian

  23. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Hey guys, my church is getting ready to buy alot of new stuff, speakers, sound system, etc... they gave me a big lump sum to do all of this. But there are a few things I would like some input on.

    1. They've finally figured out that the glass does nothing... It was just reflecting the sound onto the back wall, and then IMO, amplifying it. So now they either want to build a room for the drums, or buy one of these;

    I honestly have no problem playing in one of these, I would much prefer it over being locked in a room, but how effective do you guys think this would be? I have my personal kit and mics that I'm using, so they'll be coming through the system. The intended purpose is to cut the drums volume by at least 20%, even after the mics. I'm fairly tamed on the drums, and I do NOT want to play with hotrods or Ekits. So I'm compromising.

    2. I'm wanting to move to an in-ear monitor system. I don't care to go wireless, I will have access to my own monitor mix via Ipad, meaning I control it myself, and EQ it or add effects as I like. So I'm looking at personally buying a headphone amp, and a nice set of headphones. Any recommendations? For the amp, I've been looking at the Presonus HP4. I really don't care how much I spend on the amp, I just want the smallest one, with the best quality. I don't need more than a few channels. For the headphones, I'm still undecided on whether I want in-ear buds or over-the-ear. But for in-ears I've been looking at the Shure Se425's, and over the ear; the Bose Quietcomfort 15's. I want good quality, as well as good isolation. The less ambiance, the better. Also, yes, I will be putting up room mics in several locations, I don't want to feel completely isolated. But I'm doing that for recording reasons as well.

    Any advice, recommendations, or criticism is always welcome and appreciated.
    how do you use a monitor mix through your ipad. I assume its a specific app, but whats the app called.
    DW Remo Vic Firth Zidljian

  24. #249

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    Default Re: The Church Drummers Thread

    Sorry bud, went on vacation to see my girlfriend, didn't have access to the internet for a few weeks. Anyways, the ipad app I'm currently using is called "Xcontrol", and "Xicontrol" is the iphone app. That's behringer, Presonus has one called "Qmix" and "Virtual Studiolove". I've used and love both.
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  25. #250

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    I don't think I've ever posted in this thread, but almost all my experience in drumming has come from playing in church. This is where I got started playing with other musicians and playing in front of people. I started playing on Wednesdays for the youth in 2009 and that lasted until I graduated in 2012, although they still call me if their new drummer is gone. A few years ago, I started playing on Sundays. I love playing at church because I've always had to use a metronome, which helped me as a musician, and it also combines my two passions (I won't go into detail about my religious views, because it is against forum rules and this is a drumming forum).
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