The Church Drummers Thread

[Ciz]

This thread is for the purpose of discussing church kits. Please leave any discussions about religion, faiths, or beliefs out, this is a DRUM forum, DISCUSS DRUMS, please do not stray of topic!

Show us your kits, ask questions, discuss your past experiences, dynamics, volumes, techniques, acoustics, percussion, etc..
Thanks & God bless!


My kit at my town's outdoor church event.

[Ciz]

Okay so here's something that's been weighing on my mind. My church is going to build a drum room in the next year or so, and we're going to buy mics for my kit so they can control my volume, plus it makes my kit sound better My last church did that, it worked VERY WELL. So my question is, what mics should I get? These will be used for live applications(duh), as well as recording. I have a $2k budget, that includes the mics, stands/clamps, and cords. I don't have any experience with the different brands, the only mics I have ever used are a set of nadys that cost about $200, and they didn't do the kit justice. So what do you guys use, and what do you recommend?

[Texdrumr]

I'm virtually clueless about mics, but I just wanted compliment your kit. Very nice! I know the brand our church uses is Audix, for a congregation of about 1000 in each service and it seems to do well. The drums are in a drum room as well.

Randy

[atomcorr2]

i dont see why we have to seperate church drummers from non church drummers . we are all just drummers plain and simple.

[almostmatt1]

i dont see why we have to seperate church drummers from non church drummers . we are all just drummers plain and simple.

With all do respect i do have to agree with this. I don't get how this could be beneficial, we're all drummers and i don't think that whether we play in a church or not is an overally worthwhile topic. Again, with all do respect I just dont believe the distinction to be a fitting topic.

[Ciz]

Valid points, but with all due respect, I find this to be a very useful thread. Yes we are all drummers, whether you play in church or not. I would like to have a place where people can show me their church setups, share their experiences, give tips, etc.. I could start a thread on every topic, but I figured I could just put it in one place. I've seen threads on outdoor kits and setups, kits in small venues, bars and acoustics, etc. Why not one for churches? I mean I could just change this to a "Show us your church kits" thread in another section if it helps? I don't mean to step on any toes, but this is some stuff I'm curious about.

[drummer]

AlmostMatt and AtomCor... I hear you guys and somewhat agree that this is no different than all drummers who either play soft or play behind a shield or play in front of a crowd of people (and so on).

But I don't think there's any reason to make an issue out of this. If church drummers want their own thread, we owe them that right. The OP responsibly stated upfront that they wouldn't discuss religion, faiths or beliefs so he's addressed the forum rules. Therefore, this thread is now no different than any other thread like a "metal heads" thread or a "country drummers" thread and so on. So lets just leave well enough alone and be tolerant of many other's interests out there. At the end of the day, we're all drum brothers.

Much respect to all of you!


Cool Drummer Products for Christians!

[almostmatt1]

I could start a thread on every topic, but I figured I could just put it in one place. I've seen threads on outdoor kits and setups, kits in small venues, bars and acoustics, etc. Why not one for churches?

Well, i certainly find this to be perfectly reasonable.
I do hope everyone can avoid mentioning and discussing religion, as we all know where that leads. But so long as that stays well and good, rock on, can't wait for pics as always!

Edit: Just saw your post drummer. Sounds fair to me.

[Zeta]

I'm becoming a huge believer in Audix for mics!

If I were you I'd look into one of their packs. I know they have some that would be great and are only 500-700 for an incredible pack.

I'm using a Fusion 6 pack from them (f10's, f12, f15's) And can get a good sound for a $350 setup ($350 before cables and clips and stands.)

for example.....

[Ciz]

Thanks guys

I'm becoming a huge believer in Audix for mics!

If I were you I'd look into one of their packs. I know they have some that would be great and are only 500-700 for an incredible pack.

I'm using a Fusion 6 pack from them (f10's, f12, f15's) And can get a good sound for a $350 setup ($350 before cables and clips and stands.)

Haha well I want to get the best quality, money is not really a problem, I have over a year to save up for em, I want the best I can get. That being said we bought some Sennheiser vocal mics awhile ago, because the stupid person in charge figured "the more expencive, the better". We all liked the SM57s we had better, which were also cheaper. I know nothing about drums mics, other than most people use Shure or Audix haha. I'll look into it, thanks for the tip! Theres a Audix pack for about $2k, that would include all I need minus a floor tom mic, and possibly a bottom snare mic. Sounds pretty solid to me How much would a bottom snare mic help sound wise? If at all?

[ThePloughman]

Church drummers are different. Except as drummers, then mostly, they arent any different than any other drummer.

What makes church drumming different is the venue, and I dont mean so much the music.

Here is a for instance..... in the second post mention is made of a "drum room." Which is in essence a cage for the drummer because he is a lesser member of the music. Because the drums are too loud, because they interfere with the equalization of the rest of the instruments and vocals, because the sound man cannot balance the overall sound, because the drums are distracting to the guitar player, because, because, because. Neil Peart doesnt play in a drum room in concert. There is hardly a man among you that would take being told you have to play in a drum room at a bar gig without throwing a tantrum that would make any five year old in the toy department at Walmart glow with pride.

I have played drums in a church setting for 36 years. Ive heard everything from drums are satanic and dont belong in church to driving miles in an inch an hour rain with six thousand dollars in drums, cymbals, hardware cases in an open truck to have some stupid jerk say, "The sound guy is already set up and we dont have room for your drums on stage, just leave them outside." Which one of ya all have heard that one?

I have seen church drumming progress from being an ugly stepchild that was only tolerated because the drummer was the pastors son, to where it is today, with very talented players doing great music.

Ive had people buy me brushes over and over not so much because the drums were too loud, as it was they just didnt like drums to begin with. Gotta say, some of them were guitar players.

Did I mention I hate drum rooms? And it is the latest fad in the church music scene. I honestly believe a drum room is the crutch of the low browed sound man who lacks the skill to do his job. As soon as drums go into a drum room, it seems like the heads become pinstrips, covered with duct tape, and a few moon gells get put on for good measure. Ive sen kits that had all that and a few stuffed animals inside as well to kill any tone the drums might have. Bass drums fully wrapped with egg crate foam and stuffed with pillows.

Yea, I hate them, have a very jaded, very low opinion of them, and do not believe they are any kind of solution. Why should anyone have to be put in a cage just to enjoy worship?

For twenty years I owned one drumkit, which I still have. Originally, 24, 13, 14, 15, 18...And for the last eleven years that kit is 14x24, 9x13, 16x16, 16x18. and a 5x14 Dynasonic snare drum. Ive played in places that were a tight fit for 75 people, and in churches that could easily fit 500. You will learn dynamics and finesse playing big drums in small places or you just wont play. Ive done the whole pinstripe and duct tape and pillow in the bass drum thing, but wont anymore. At some point I finally figured it out. I hated the sound of my drums. So I started experimenting, with tuning, with heads, with different muffling. It took a while, but I learned. I learned finesse, I learned lighter sticks, I learned dynamics. I lerned how to tune, and how to make it sound good without being too loud.


yes, I like this thread. There is a lot of things different for church drummers.


By the way, I hate drum rooms.
Dont drink the cool aid.

[drummer]

Great post Plough, and this...

Ive heard everything from drums are satanic...

...is why we must be careful. Someone else comes along and comments about that very thing and before you know it, this becomes a religious thread and it will have to be closed.
So I'm actually still complimenting you but just pointing out why we must be careful and keep the focus on just the drums.

By the way, ironically we have the same challenges in the metal threads. Without digging a hole (maybe I just did), it can quickly get a bit "dark" in there if you know what I mean. Moderating is a delicate balance and an ongoing challenge. Sometimes I hate this job.

[drummer]

And I hate drum rooms/shields too. The last time I played a gig and a guy put a shield in front of me, I asked him to take it down. He said "I use it with all the drummers to keep the volume down." I said (ever so carefully), "You hired me for my playing right? I'm capable of playing at the volume you need. Please... let's not use the shield." He took it down. I played the volume he needed. He praised me (no pun intended) and said that I was the only drummer that could do that. I don't believe it but it was a hell (no satan intended) of a compliment.

[Ciz]

Church drummers are different. Except as drummers, then mostly, they arent any different than any other drummer.

What makes church drumming different is the venue, and I dont mean so much the music.

Here is a for instance..... in the second post mention is made of a "drum room." Which is in essence a cage for the drummer because he is a lesser member of the music. Because the drums are too loud, because they interfere with the equalization of the rest of the instruments and vocals, because the sound man cannot balance the overall sound, because the drums are distracting to the guitar player, because, because, because. Neil Peart doesnt play in a drum room in concert. There is hardly a man among you that would take being told you have to play in a drum room at a bar gig without throwing a tantrum that would make any five year old in the toy department at Walmart glow with pride.

I have played drums in a church setting for 36 years. Ive heard everything from drums are satanic and dont belong in church to driving miles in an inch an hour rain with six thousand dollars in drums, cymbals, hardware cases in an open truck to have some stupid jerk say, "The sound guy is already set up and we dont have room for your drums on stage, just leave them outside." Which one of ya all have heard that one?

I have seen church drumming progress from being an ugly stepchild that was only tolerated because the drummer was the pastors son, to where it is today, with very talented players doing great music.

Ive had people buy me brushes over and over not so much because the drums were too loud, as it was they just didnt like drums to begin with. Gotta say, some of them were guitar players.

Did I mention I hate drum rooms? And it is the latest fad in the church music scene. I honestly believe a drum room is the crutch of the low browed sound man who lacks the skill to do his job. As soon as drums go into a drum room, it seems like the heads become pinstrips, covered with duct tape, and a few moon gells get put on for good measure. Ive sen kits that had all that and a few stuffed animals inside as well to kill any tone the drums might have. Bass drums fully wrapped with egg crate foam and stuffed with pillows.

Yea, I hate them, have a very jaded, very low opinion of them, and do not believe they are any kind of solution.

For twenty years I owned one drumkit, which I still have. 14x24, 9x13, 16x16, 16x18. and a 5x14 Dynasonic snare drum. Ive played in places that were a tight fit for 75 people, and in churches that could easily fit 500. You will learn dynamics and finesse playing big drums in small places or you just wont play. Ive done the whole pinstripe and duct tape and pillow in the bass drum thing, but wont anymore. At some point I finally figured it out. I hated the sound of my drums. So I started experimenting, with tuning, with heads, with different muffling. It took a while, but I learned. I learned finesse, I learned lighter sticks, I learned dynamics. I lerned how to tune, and how to make it sound good without being too loud.


yes, I like this thread. There is a lot of things different for church drummers.


By the way, I hate drum rooms.

Hmm.....So your saying you hate drums rooms?..... I laughed so hard at your post haha.

I understand where your coming from, but in my current situation I think it's necessary. Our church is growing, it's only a few months old. But if you were to put 50 people in this church, you would have people standing up, and outside This is a very small church, with a very, very small stage. My drums take up more than half of it. I'm fairly good about tuning. I've done the sheets under the heads, Hydraulics, duct tape, moongels, RemO's, drum mutes, etc. I've got my drums sounding pretty blended with the music, without being overbearing, by just tuning low with moongels on them. However we are wanting to expand, getting my drums out of the way, would not not only help the overall music sound better and tighter, but would help platform space too. We have very nice equipment, awesome musicians, and we can outplay any local church, but if you were to walk in and hear us, it's not very pleasant haha. We're working on it, it would help if we actually had a sound guy who knew what he was doing.. Trust me I wish I could just tune my drums and play like I like too but if I were to do that, I would be overbearing haha. The biggest church gig I've ever played in had about 6k people in it, I had a set of X7's at the time, that was paradise, I got my drums tuned like I liked them, they could ring, and most of all I could play as loud as I wanted That was the good ol' days

[Ciz]

Great post Plough, and this...



...is why we must be careful. Someone else comes along and comments about that very thing and before you know it, this becomes a religious thread and it will have to be closed.
So I'm actually still complimenting you but just pointing out why we must be careful and keep the focus on just the drums.

By the way, ironically we have the same challenges in the metal threads. Without digging a hole (maybe I just did), it can quickly get a bit "dark" in there if you know what I mean. Moderating is a delicate balance and an ongoing challenge. Sometimes I hate this job.

I've seen it all before haha People get offended very easily about certain stuff, so my goal is to try and keep this thread as on topic as possible. I know it must get old having to moderate things like this, making sure no fights break out, all the while still keeping peace and being reasonable, I applaud you on how well you do it too

And I hate drum rooms/shields too. The last time I played a gig and a guy put a shield in front of me, I asked him to take it down. He said "I use it with all the drummers to keep the volume down." I said (ever so carefully), "You hired me for my playing right? I'm capable of playing at the volume you need. Please... let's not use the shield." He took it down. I played the volume he needed. He praised me (no pun intended) and said that I was the only drummer that could do that. I don't believe it but it was a hell (no satan intended) of a compliment.

Haha I normally have no problem playing soft, except in a few songs we do that are pretty hard, then I focus on my playing and forget I get so mad at my self haha. I'm learning though, playing in a small church is one thing I've benefited from, it's improved my dynamics and my ability to play soft.

[ThePloughman]

Currently I am not playing in church. I do play with a gosple/country style band that does mostly small venue retirement home gigs. We usually play out once or twice a week, most weeks. A slow month would be about four times out. A heavy month would be eight or ten. Every few months we just take a month off completely and practice more instead of playing out.
Room sizes vary greatly. 20x20, 20x30, with one of the largest we play in is about 40x50.

We have keyboard, which we carry often, because some places have atrocious pianos, acoustic guitar amped, a lead guitar, drums, and bass. Bass player also plays mandolin on some songs.

Crowds can be from 15-30 most of the time, sometimes its less. Sometimes more. Surprisingly, 20 people in a smaller room is a huge crowd. You play very close to the audience. Its nothing to have people less than six feet from the drumkit. And we do use sound reinforcement. All of that together makes it a real tricky situation. You cannot allow yourself to be too loud. That is just not an option.

Mostly in this type situation I do not use a personal monitor, I depend on the one main speaker we use and the two small monitors that are for everyone else, to judge my volume. If I can hear everything going on without losing any of the instruments, or the vocals, and no one is making painful faces, things are pretty good. This is really close playing, and you have to keep a good eye on the audience, because primarily, we are playing for their enjoyment. It does take a good bit of discipline as a band to play a small venue using amped instruments and sound reinforcement and not be too loud.

One thing I have found that helps is a really tight set up, with most of the other music in front of the drums. You get some natural muffling from the bodies, and you get a better blend of you snare, toms, bass, and cymbals into the music. Your sound is pushing into their sound. It blends better than the other way around.

I use smaller sticks for most venues. Vic Firth American Jazz AJ2 sticks. I also use Vic Firth or a lighter set of Regal Brushes on songs that require being brused out.

I dont take the big drums to gigs this size, for one, the footprint is just too big. I have two kits with 20" BD, 12, 16FT. I have a 14x14 with one of the sets. I also have two kits built on 18" BDs. Singly ply coated on top, clear singles on bottom. Single ply coated on snare. BDs have a solid front Fiberskyn medium/ambassador, no internal muffling, and I use Evans EQ series single ply muffle heads.

------------

[IAmNotATable]

All the drummers at my church slowly hid the pieces of our drum room in closets that aren't frequented often. I agree, it's the sound guy's problem. A drum room, and sometimes even a shield (especially if there are things left unmic'd) just makes things sound muddy and blended. I like the sharp feeling of drums when playing live. More attack... Just better sound. If people think it's too loud, maybe they're at the wrong church. It's a contemporary place, they should expect some louder worship there. Anyways, a bit about our setup.

There are two rooms where we play. The gymatorium (Gym + Auditorium) and the Icon Theater. The gymatorium is the main place, and there's a sweet sound and lighting rig there. To give you a good idea, picture is below. The Icon is a room designed with acoustics in mind, but without proper equipment. We often brought in extra speakers to play there, and I'd bring my own kit to avoid that cruddy old Yamaha. They don't treat it well. But it's a church. Go figure. Now, we use the Icon for recording, then Kid's City (Little Tykes) take over on Sunday, and a rehabilitation group on Tuesday night which I also play for. Many inspiring stories to be heard about addiction recovery, ect. They like to rock it a bit too. Main service on Sundays is a monthly thing for me, there are two on Saturday and Three Sunday. It's a lot of playing. Usually close to a couple hundred people show for each service, except the early one. Fewer people go to that because they want to sleep.



Our youth group, StuCo does our thing in there now. Good sounding stuff, way better than Icon. The kit is a PDP XLS, all DW hardware and Audix mics. Zildjian A's all around, except for when I'm playing. So that's pretty neat. Then I'm sure most of you have seen this...



This is Blast. It's our retreat, packing a convention center with a solid 2,500+ students. It rocks.

I like this place because the volume levels don't need to be controlled. Travel to another campus though (It's multi site) and that situation changes. I play for five different campuses. It's fun stuff. Even met my girlfriend at one of them! Yippee.

[Ciz]

Haha nice kit It's a blast playing in big places like that, no having to worry about being to loud, and I usually have to stay on stage afterwards for awhile while people come up and give me compliments, there's no feeling like it At my previous church, the one with the drum room, the music sounded more like it was off a cd than live, which is not always a good thing. But it sounded good.

[Ciz]

We have keyboard, which we carry often, because some places have atrocious pianos, acoustic guitar amped, a lead guitar, drums, and bass. Bass player also plays mandolin on some songs.

We currently have a Piano, acoustic guitar(amped), electric guitar, bass, drums, and the occasional violin. I'm currently training my little sister on percussion, tambourine, cabasa, blocks, maracas, etc.. It's amazing how a tambourine can change the whole mood of a song.

Crowds can be from 15-30 most of the time, sometimes its less. Sometimes more. Surprisingly, 20 people in a smaller room is a huge crowd. You play very close to the audience. Its nothing to have people less than six feet from the drumkit. And we do use sound reinforcement. All of that together makes it a real tricky situation. You cannot allow yourself to be too loud. That is just not an option.

]Mostly in this type situation I do not use a personal monitor, I depend on the one main speaker we use and the two small monitors that are for everyone else, to judge my volume. If I can hear everything going on without losing any of the instruments, or the vocals, and no one is making painful faces, things are pretty good. This is really close playing, and you have to keep a good eye on the audience, because primarily, we are playing for their enjoyment. It does take a good bit of discipline as a band to play a small venue using amped instruments and sound reinforcement and not be too loud.

I know how that is man, I've done that most of my life, it's pretty rewarding though. We've done similar stuff in nursing homes on holidays.

One thing I have found that helps is a really tight set up, with most of the other music in front of the drums. You get some natural muffling from the bodies, and you get a better blend of you snare, toms, bass, and cymbals into the music. Your sound is pushing into their sound. It blends better than the other way around.

I've learned this quite recently. We had some other churches come over for an even a few days ago, and the place was packed, people were having to standing up, everything. I actually had to take the moongels off to get it to blend, according to the soundman anyways. It's amazing how this stuff works haha.

I use smaller sticks for most venues. Vic Firth American Jazz AJ2 sticks. I also use Vic Firth or a lighter set of Regal Brushes on songs that require being brused out.

I use Promark White Oak 7As, as well as Promark nylon brushes, and Promark Hotrods. Different applications call for different techniques I just bought a pair of Regal tip Speed Ex sticks, I'm growing quite fond of em.

I dont take the big drums to gigs this size, for one, the footprint is just too big. I have two kits with 20" BD, 12, 16FT. I have a 14x14 with one of the sets. I also have two kits built on 18" BDs. Singly ply coated on top, clear singles on bottom. Single ply coated on snare. BDs have a solid front Fiberskyn medium/ambassador, no internal muffling, and I use Evans EQ series single ply muffle heads.

I usually take my kick, snare, 12" and 16" toms, as well as my hihats, my ride, and a crash when I have to travel with my kit. I used to use hydraulics, until I started playing at bigger venues, then I started using G2/Ec2's, and just used moongell on the smaller ones.

[Zeta]

Thanks guys



Haha well I want to get the best quality, money is not really a problem, I have over a year to save up for em, I want the best I can get. That being said we bought some Sennheiser vocal mics awhile ago, because the stupid person in charge figured "the more expencive, the better". We all liked the SM57s we had better, which were also cheaper. I know nothing about drums mics, other than most people use Shure or Audix haha. I'll look into it, thanks for the tip! Theres a Audix pack for about $2k, that would include all I need minus a floor tom mic, and possibly a bottom snare mic. Sounds pretty solid to me How much would a bottom snare mic help sound wise? If at all?

I think you would be fine with even the $700. I know youd be fine actually lol. But if you want to go with the $2000 and makes us all jealous then go for it .

If its got a D6 for the kick then the pack will be up to par.

the DP7 pack has the same snare, tom and kick mics as the Elite8 pack does. The only real difference is the upgraded overheads, and a hi hat condenser. then looks like goose neck clips too.

[Ciz]

I think you would be fine with even the $700. I know youd be fine actually lol. But if you want to go with the $2000 and makes us all jealous then go for it .

If its got a D6 for the kick then the pack will be up to par.

the DP7 pack has the same snare, tom and kick mics as the Elite8 pack does. The only real difference is the upgraded overheads, and a hi hat condenser. then looks like goose neck clips too.

Hmm thanks for the information gives me something to think about. I've also got to get a board for em haha. No clue whatsoever about that but they're paying for that, not me thankfully

[Redeye]

While I am not a church going man myself, I am fascinated by the role music takes with religion. I grew up as a holiday-only Catholic churchgoer with choir and organ being the only entertainment. A drumset in the church would have been unheard of. I took voice lessons and sang in a Methodist choir once a month with my teacher, but that was still only piano. Can I ask what denominations you all are? Perhaps more music and less "fire and brimstone" would have kept my interest.

In regards to sound reinforcement - the livelier the room, the more you have to control the drum sound. If you are in a 40 foot high ceiling, marble floor cathedral, you should probably cower behind plexiglass with a Beta 52 in the kick and SM57 on the snare. If it's a standard, carpeted, 10 foot ceiling room, I would still use the SM57 and Beta 52, but add either dynamic mics to all the toms, or a nice large diaphragm condenser overhead. The trick is keeping the stage volume under control well enough to be able to play without hearing difficulty. Even really cheap drum mic packs are capable of producing acceptable amped up sound with quality amplifiers and speakers.

[TygerPax]

great idea for a thread man ill get a pic of the kit in my church n post it, oh and who ever wanted to know about mike ill ask our sound guy about what we use

[Russ]

Regarding your mic situation, what size room are you going to be using? If it's a smaller one i'd say an overhead or two should be all you need. Not a whole lot of sense in buying a ton of mics if the room doesn't allow for decent cable management so you can navigate around. If you do end up using a drum shield, I recommend getting some good hearing protection because it will intensify what is heard in the drivers' seat.

[2slow]

Talking about a shield, ive got a story for y'all. started playing at a church and a couple weeks in was told we were gonna build a shield to match the oak blinder/rail thingies. I was like why ? Then get this now some of the older ladies said " it looks like a rock concert with all those drums" not because it was loud !? So the church spent a good bit on this shield to hide my beautiful drums ?? I have a picture somewhere ill post later.