How much should I expect to pay for recording equipment?

[Fifty]

I'm not really considering it, I'm just interested, and somewhere down the line I'll be buying recording equipment. For a five piece, five cymbal kit, what kind of equipment should I be looking for (not brand names, I mean, over heads, toms, kicks, snares etc..) and how much should I expect to pay for everything (Software, mics... what ever the mics plug into :P) Last month we had a party and my friends band was playing, so I set up the drums and **** (the drummer doesn't actually know about his drums, be hes good :P, so I was his techy for the night :P) anyways we plugged all the mics into a mixer that we needed for the music, vocals mics, acoustic guitar mics, etc.. so the mixer controlled all the sound, including the drum set. Is that the only way to do it? I mean plug all of the drum mics into a mixer, which is then connected to a computer?

[Zeta]

Oh man you're opening a can of worms! I've been learning recording for 3 years now and I'm still figuring a ton of stuff out.

There are tons of ways to record.

You can do a 4 mic setup. 1 kick 1 snare 2 overheads. You can do mics on the 3 toms if you wanted to.

You can go cheaper and plug the mixer outs into the audio input of the computer (not recommended for more than scratch stuff)

You can do a submix of the drums if you wanted using 1 mixer into an interface.

You can use USB interface but Firewire will allow you to multitrack.

All of this plus if you need to record any other instruments. vocals, bass, keys, guitar, synth...ect.

So just for a basic Idea of the cheapest you can get away with. and get a decent quality.
PV6 Usb Mixer. $130
Digital Reference DRDK7. $200

So there you are at $330, plus you will need to get cables and such so expect about $100 more or less.

That will get you a basic setup and get the job done. I personally like the PV6 mixer, I use the non usb version for my live setup and submix when recording.

There is way way more into it, but something along those lines will get you going.

[trickg]

What you can expect to pay is all up in the air based on what you want to get and what your budget is. Microphones by themselves, if you want true studio quality recording, can run thousands of dollars in a jiffy. And then you have to look at your interface and what outboard analog processing you might want to do. Certain preamps can cost thousands of dollars, and that's just for a single microphone!

On the other hand, you could do something similar to what I've got.

$??? (depends on model) iMac - mostly running GarageBand, but soon will get Digital Performer
$450-$500 (depends on source) Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Firewire interface
$300-$400 (depends on if you can score a decent deal) KRK Rokit studio monitors

Here are some mics I have that I can use to record drums:

$100 - Shure SM57
$350 - Shure SM7B (bought this as a vocal mic but is similar to EV RE20, which is a studio standard for kick)
$100 - CAD Pro 7 drum mic set (got mine on MF Stupid deal of the day - this set runs $150-$200 normally)
$60 - 3-pack Behringer XM8500 cardioid dynamic mics (they reviewed well and the price was right - I like them)
$100 - 2 Audix FS Fusion 15 small diaphragm condenser mics
$100 - KRK KNS6400 Studio headphones (The Sennheiser HD 280s are maybe a better choice and are roughly the same price - I got the KRKs because of my monitors)
$??? - Cables - lots and lots of cables. And mic stands

I've been accumulating this gear for a couple of years now and I've got over $1000 in it, not including my iMac. My stuff is pretty low-level stuff too.

[Zeta]

I like what trick did to show you... here is my current recording gear.

Mackbook Pro $1600
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 $500
Peavey PV6 Mixer $100
Audix Fusion 6 mics (F10, F10, F10, F12, F15, F15) $400ish (on sale)
Audix i5 $100
Audio Technica ath-M30 headphones $60
Mic Clips $50

Granted I got quite a bit of discounts with this stuff, but these are the retail prices. But I'm still missing stuff for external processing, a more solid kick mic, either better monitoring headphones, or some good monitors

[trickg]

Zeta, that's a pretty nice setup. If you don't mind my asking, what are you using for a DAW - are you using GarageBand or something else? I like using GarageBand because it's easy and even though it doesn't record at the higher bit rates that are "preferred" I still think it sounds pretty danged good.

What kind of outboard processing do you want to use? Are you looking for outboard analog compression or gating? I own an FMR RNC compressor which is supposed to be the cat's meow for the money, but I've never hooked it up - I currently use it as a limiter on my in-ears rig - and for compression and gating I use the Focusrite Plugins. They rock IMO - I was always frustrated trying to get what I felt was a good vocal using the tools intrinsic to GB - the GB compressor is a bit limited in the settings that are available, but the Focusrite compressor plugin has the same settings as a good outboard compressor and it really made my vocal recordings jump to life. I'm still in the beginning learning stages of recording so at some point I might want some better outboard processing.

[Zeta]

Zeta, that's a pretty nice setup. If you don't mind my asking, what are you using for a DAW - are you using GarageBand or something else? I like using GarageBand because it's easy and even though it doesn't record at the higher bit rates that are "preferred" I still think it sounds pretty danged good.

What kind of outboard processing do you want to use? Are you looking for outboard analog compression or gating? I own an FMR RNC compressor which is supposed to be the cat's meow for the money, but I've never hooked it up - I currently use it as a limiter on my in-ears rig - and for compression and gating I use the Focusrite Plugins. They rock IMO - I was always frustrated trying to get what I felt was a good vocal using the tools intrinsic to GB - the GB compressor is a bit limited in the settings that are available, but the Focusrite compressor plugin has the same settings as a good outboard compressor and it really made my vocal recordings jump to life. I'm still in the beginning learning stages of recording so at some point I might want some better outboard processing.

Thanks Trick, it is my work in progress. I don't mind using garageband, because like you stated, its simple and easy to use. I actually prefer to use Reaper though. It has a great user interace, and laid out similar to garageband and logic ect. But its only $60 lol. It also allows you to do simultaneous multi tracking.

As far as outboard I hoping to get some sort of compressor/limiter (but the focusrite one is really really good). I don't know exactly what all I want, but I might also add a tube mic pre. Still trying to figure out what to get lol.

Maybe this will be in my rack (recording and live)
Power Conditioner
31 Band Stereo EQ
QSC GX3 Power Amp
Compressor
Reverb
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40

[trickg]

For simultaneous multi-tracking, are you talking recording multiple tracks at once, or something else? If that's all it is, I do that with Garage Band. I'll have to look into Reaper though. It sounds like it's a good application.

[Fifty]

For one thing, I'm sticking with my windows laptop, I'm sure Macs a great and everything, but I used to be huge techy, and I still know my stuff; Macs are good, but still way overpriced and over rated. Thats my opinion. Anyway, I have no clue what a pre amp is, and I think it'll be a while before I start recording anyway, at least until I upgrade my drumset (In two-four years, I bought my drum set (pearl forum) about three years ago) Thank you, based on your responses I guess I'll be paying around $500-$600 :P Also I have headphones, Vic Firth (but I forgot the model number) they're pretty good, and they isolate pretty good, I can hear what I am playing, and can clearly tell if I screw up, and at the same time the drumset sounds so much quieter, and my ears don't start to (figuratively) bleed :P

[itchie]

hardware is defiantly and important part of home recording

but the real sacrifice is time ...the more time learning DAWS ,VSTs and mic techniques the better your end product will be

having an open mind, asking questions ,searching the internet ..learning from others mistakes ...this is the only way

[Zeta]

For simultaneous multi-tracking, are you talking recording multiple tracks at once, or something else? If that's all it is, I do that with Garage Band. I'll have to look into Reaper though. It sounds like it's a good application.

:O I didn't know you could do that!!! I've always been told it was not able too....Reaper is better anyways, but I cannot afford the $60 license currently and my 30 free period just ended so I'll have to use garageband now that I know I can lol. I would suggest reaper, you can download a free trial of 30 license free use.

For one thing, I'm sticking with my windows laptop, I'm sure Macs a great and everything, but I used to be huge techy, and I still know my stuff; Macs are good, but still way overpriced and over rated. Thats my opinion. Anyway, I have no clue what a pre amp is, and I think it'll be a while before I start recording anyway, at least until I upgrade my drumset (In two-four years, I bought my drum set (pearl forum) about three years ago) Thank you, based on your responses I guess I'll be paying around $500-$600 :P Also I have headphones, Vic Firth (but I forgot the model number) they're pretty good, and they isolate pretty good, I can hear what I am playing, and can clearly tell if I screw up, and at the same time the drumset sounds so much quieter, and my ears don't start to (figuratively) bleed :P

1: I'm a pretty big techie myself, and am so fed up with windows that I'll never go back. Macs use 1 operating system for everything on the computer. Windows use 2, 1 for the hardware and 1 for the software, so there are more stops in the system in order to do a task. So not only do macs have superior operating systems, they also only use 1 system. Makes them a lot faster. The OSx also is almost never going to get a virus unless you try to get one. My brother spent $850 on an HP laptop with and i5 and 4 gigs of ram, I have a macbook pro that I spent $1000 on (its the $1500 13in) is technically outdated with a core 2 duo (2.66ghz) and 4 gigs of ram. His computer cannot even compete in speed and usability It's fair to use windows, but just make sure you understand how a mac works before you become one of the guys who hates them for being popular. Popularity comes for a reason.

2: If you want to go firewire for recording, a pc will never be able to compete with a mac in firewire. apple invented firewire so their OS works with it better. plus the have 9 pin firwire which is faster.

3: Vic Firth headphones are amazing headphones in the price range. I went with the audio technica only because GC had not vics left. I'm still happy nonetheless.

4: A preamp is basically the power that the mixer send to the mic in order to create a signal. Then an amp is what makes that signal loud. Quiet preamps or pre's are very important live and studio, you dont want fuzz in your sound. Unless its like you recorded to a tapedeck to get the old school recording sound.

5: Pearl forums are pretty good kits, the right heads and youll be set. I rocked an Orbitone kit for awhile (birch, basswood, mahogany shells) Now I sit with an M Birch which is great for recording, a lot of attack and a killer bass drum. I suggest the Meridian or M series kits from Mapex as your upgrade.

Sorry for the super long answer.....and other questions? I do my best.

[itchie]

hello above ^^^

im using a 4 year old quad-core, i use windows 7, i record 16 milti channels and iv never had a problem with my firewire ..

so why bag pc's?

[nucjd]

oh hear we go...PC vs MAC. You can head over to the DUC (now avid) forum and enjoy about 1 million posts about it. I have recorded up to 18 channels at once via firewire at 96k on a little old dell for years but it was completely optimized for pro tools and stripped bare except for the OS. It would start to choke when I added multiple plugins but other than that it was rock solid. I now use macs and they are great as well. I prefer macs over PC because IMHO the linux OS handles the data stream and plugins better when plugins are stacked on multiple tracks. Now a days it does not matter too much ONLY if you use pro tools you better go to the AVID website and make sure you PC computer build is compatible as there are pages of hardware that will not work for pro tools (i.e. certain graphics cards, certain windows OS, certain hard drives, certain motherboards). A mac is compatible right out of the box.

[trickg]

Zeta, just a quick primer on the multi-tracking in GB, although it sounds like Reaper might be a better tool overall.

On each track, there is a round button on the left side of the track's tool bar. As long as you have each track assigned to a different channel on the interface, you just click that button on the tracks you want to record, and when you click the big "Record" button on the main tool bar in the middle of the screen, every track you clicked above will start recording, but I believe it has a limitation of 8 tracks at once.

Onto another subject, the whole Mac vs PC thing, I typically avoid that discussion because everyone has their favorites, but since the platform is an important piece of digital recording, I'll jump in with a few thoughts from my own perspective.

I work in Information Technology. I'm a Microsoft SQL Server database administrator by day and I work in a PC/Microsoft environment. I've been in Information Technology since 1999. I've owned a smattering of computers and laptops in that time. The last time I had a computer start to go bad on me with performance issues, malware, etc, I did a lot of research and put in a lot of thought before I bought what is now my home's main computer, my 20" iMac. At the time I went pretty low end because as others have pointed out, Macs tend to be a bit more expensive than their PC counterparts.

That was over 4 years ago and this machine runs today just like it did the day I got it. I have NEVER had a PC perform as well for this long. Normally, in spite of my best efforts my PCs would get bogged down with malware, would get screwed up after trying to install an automatic update...whatever. This machine has performed flawlessly in all that time. I rarely shut it down, and very rarely I reboot it - only when it becomes necessary after installing an update, which to date has yet to cause any kind of an issue. I think in 4 years time I have maybe had to reboot because of some kind of lockup or other issue 3 or 4 times. It's rare that I have to do a "Force Quit" on an application, but when I do, that almost always resolves the issue. Even at work where the machines are pretty lean and clean, I have to pull up task manager a couple of times a week and kill a process that has hung.

This computer runs so well that I'm getting ready to replace the original 250 gig hard drive with a 1TB drive. For me this will be a pretty easy process and restoring the machine to what it was will be as simple as installing the OS from the disk, plugging in my backup drive and running Time Machine. If I really wanted to get it rolling I could even update the processor chip - an Intel Core 2 Duo. One thing at a time though - right now I don't have any processor speed issues with the current processor so there isn't much of a reason to replace it. I am confident that unless some other piece of hardware on the Motherboard fails, I'll get several more years out of this machine trouble free.

I know that what I've posted is kind of an off-topic, but being pretty familiar with both worlds I can say without a doubt that at least for my home computing applications, I'm more than happy with my iMac, and will probably never own another PC for home use.

[Zeta]

hello above ^^^

im using a 4 year old quad-core, i use windows 7, i record 16 milti channels and iv never had a problem with my firewire ..

so why bag pc's?

Itchie, Trick just explained every reason that I will never own a PC for personal use again. And Nucjd covered some too. The only benefit id have in one is for certain video games that microsoft has the title for. They just aren't the same as a mac. They were built to do the same things, but my mac just seems better.
I'm happy to hear that your pc is doing so well for you, but you must be taking incredible care of it, or you're a very lucky man. My mac is only a year and a half old, and I rarely shut it down but it runs like new.

There are uses for both windows and mac, so lets try not to stray from this threads topic. In my opinion and experiences Macs do better more of the time.


Trick, I never even saw that before, I've never tried multitracking on GB so maybe I just didnt notice it. When you click the red button that is called "arming" a track

[DrumRookie]

Well, I think it's time I chime into this discussion. :P
I live in a household with 5 Macs, so maybe I'm a little biased. But I have used a PC before, and it left me with my definition of a PC standing for Personal Crap.
I used to go to the library before we upgraded to high speed internet, and I used the PC's they had over there. I tried to load something and it kept bringing up window after window of stuff. And everything takes longer on there too, the only thing I like about PC's is that the mouse has the little scrolling thing in the middle of it.
But I have not used as PC for recording, but I have heard some nightmares about it.
Everyone complains about the price of Macs, but I honestly just think they are only taking in account the short run of how much it will cost.

I don't want to add gas to the fire, but thats just my opinion.

Anyways, as far as your recording issue goes, I don't think you need to spend 500-600 just to get a good sound. I'm thinking only $300 or a little more. But I think you might want to just listen to Zeta and the others, I'm new to this stuff too.

[trickg]

the only thing I like about PC's is that the mouse has the little scrolling thing in the middle of it.

I'm using a Dynex (translation: cheap) USB 4 button optical mouse with a clicking scrolling wheel. Most people don't know this but if you use a 2-button mouse with a Mac, you get the same kinds of right-click menus you get with a PC. I loaded absolutely no software for this mouse - I plugged it in, and it simply worked, just like almost every other peripheral piece of equipment I've ever plugged in. Same thing goes with keyboards, although I have to say that was probably my #1 complaint - the keyboard that came with this iMac was a bluetooth keyboard that was just the keys - no keypad. I replaced that with a corded USB Mac keyboard that has the keypad on the right.

[kyle102565]

from everything ive gathered you can make a studio quality recording with a Mac right out of the box given proper inputs. am i correct?
i was told it has software already loaded from the factory.
with a PC your buying very expensive software and run the risk of crashing. or even worse a frozen screen.

[itchie]

im going to agree to disagree

good luck with that spinning wheel of doom and all that ..ill keep the blue screens we can all be happy and still write/capture awesome music

just don't open a can of worms in this forum and expect us all to agree every time

[kyle102565]

my post was in the form of a question. i left out a question mark at the end, my bad.
i dont think a discussion of this nature is a can of worms.
unfortunately you seem to be the one with the can opener.
i own a PC.

[itchie]

it was there i saw it and i couldn't help my self

plus i didn't want to write 6 paragraphs to get my point across

[Zeta]

Look I don't care what you use as your computer. My point is that in my experience and research macs have outperformed pc's over and over. There is nothing wrong with using a pc, whatever its your choice. I'm just saying if you have the choice i recommend macs and I gave my reasons. No reason to get pissed for me having an opinion.

and so you know, the spinning wheel of death is a much more rare occurrence than you seem to think. PC lovers like yourself have taken a few occurrences and blew them out of proportion.

Regardless of what you use, take care of it and run it safely.

[DrumRookie]

Look I don't care what you use as your computer. My point is that in my experience and research macs have outperformed pc's over and over. There is nothing wrong with using a pc, whatever its your choice. I'm just saying if you have the choice i recommend macs and I gave my reasons. No reason to get pissed for me having an opinion.

and so you know, the spinning wheel of death is a much more rare occurrence than you seem to think. PC lovers like yourself have taken a few occurrences and blew them out of proportion.

Regardless of what you use, take care of it and run it safely.

I think that sums it up about there.

Now lets get back on topic!

[trickg]

from everything ive gathered you can make a studio quality recording with a Mac right out of the box given proper inputs. am i correct?
i was told it has software already loaded from the factory.
with a PC your buying very expensive software and run the risk of crashing. or even worse a frozen screen.

Ultimately it's pretty much even. Yes, Macs come with GarageBand installed, and it's arguably a very capable piece of recording software that's easy to use and easy for people to get going in the world of home recording. Having said that, there are a number of either free or fairly inexpensive programs that can be easily had for PCs (or Macs for that matter) that accomplish much the same thing, so it's a matter of doing your research and finding what you are most comfortable with no matter which system you prefer to use.

[kyle102565]

what are some of the free programs for PC?

[Zeta]

what are some of the free programs for PC?

My favorite free PC one was Krystal. Then there's programs like Audacity. And reaper is 1 month for free and $60 for the license.