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Thread: Trad grip help?

  1. #1

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    Default Trad grip help?

    Hi,
    Anyone here well versed in the art of traditional grip? I'm diligently trying to learning this grip but I'm still having difficulties. I have correct grip and can get rebound fine but I find that sometimes the stick tends to slide depending on the angle and elevation of the wrist - either towards the butt or towards the tip...

    Also, I'd like to make sure the rotation angle of my wrist is correct and that I'm not doing anything that will cause me problems later on i.e., pain, bad habits, etc.

    I know know it's hard to help solely via text so, I can make a video of me playing on a practice pad with different angles but just wanted to ask anyone here would even be able to help in the first place.

    Btw, Ive watched countless videos on youtube. I even own JoJo Mayers "Secret Weapons" but still not quite there with it.

    Thanks in advance,
    Justin

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Trad grip help?


    hmmm that didnt work. how about this?


    fine heres the link LOL

    http://youtu.be/ib_JBbStIE0
    Last edited by jazzkat; 11-10-2011 at 11:22 AM.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Trad grip help?

    I started with Traditional grip 55 years ago, and have tried to show it to people over the years since match took over.

    All I can tell you is, it takes practice, lots of it, especially if you were brought up on match.

    Figure a year of using it exclusively to get comfortable with it. I don't mean master it, just get comfortable with it.

  4. #4

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    Rick is right. It just takes alot of practice.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
    Temple Beth Snare Buzz-Head Rabbi

  5. #5

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    I switched after about 10 years of matched, and have about 12 years on traditional now. I'll echo the above- it took a solid year of just getting my body and every part of my left hand comfortable with how it felt. It was very awkward at first, and boy did it hurt! The fulcrum point is not like the one between your thumb and index finger- those are constantly in contact with objects all day long, griping, etc., and are built for such things. But when you rock a stick on that tender part between you thumb and index- it takes time to build that area up!

    My thoughts in terms of technique probably aren't the best as I tend to play open handed (see my videos for what I mean). I do know that I'm constantly manipulating the stick, as it slides on me as well. Whether or not I'm doing things wrong or that's just the nature of the grip (or my particular style) I'm not sure. But as with everything- practice, and if it feels wrong still then something needs to be adjusted. After practicing for over a year, traditional feels more natural to me now than matched grip, and I find it offers much more finesse and expressiveness.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    Figure a year of using it exclusively to get comfortable with it. I don't mean master it, just get comfortable with it.
    Yep - Rick is right on the money with that. When I was a bugler in the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps I decided I wanted to learn how to drum traditional grip, Ancient (fife and drum) style rudimental snare. Even under the tutelage of some of the best rudimental drummers in the country, It took quite a long while before I was able to effectively drum that way - at least a year before it didn't feel weird, and longer before I was able to really effectively use it. I never was a great snare drummer, but I got good enough that I could jam at the FDC musters in New England that we'd go to.

    Just keep after it - you're going to have to be dedicated to it if you really want to learn how to use it.
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  7. #7

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    Thanks everyone - the advice really helps.

    Didn't realize it would be as lengthy but it doesn't put me off - makes me feel better in knowing that it's just a process rather than me doing something doing wrong.

    I've been fooling around with it for about a year or two but never "dedicated" to learning it til now. It actually feels more "right" to me than matched - I don't feel near as much tension in the left hand with trad as I do with matched. I also like the subjective feel of it as well; cradling the stick rather than gripping it.
    I will say, I think I sometimes regulate the pressure between the thumb and hand, not keeping it at one constant pressure - that could be some of my problem, yes?

    I'll still try to make a video here soon so you can check it out, make sure I'm not committing any alarming errors in technique.

    Thanks again all.
    Last edited by JMont87; 11-11-2011 at 04:53 AM.

  8. #8

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    For me, I've always had an issue getting a good double bounce using matched grip with my left hand. If I'm playing ANYTHING rudimental, I switch up to traditional grip.

    I think a lot of it has to do with fine tuning the muscles to control the bounce. Are you using heavier sticks to do your traditional grip practice? I think that's a good way to go initially. Maybe not as heavy as I went - my Cooperman Guardsman sticks are right around 98 grams, but a set of 5Bs would probably be enough.
    Your = possessive - your stuff, your dog, your car, etc
    You're = you are - a contraction.

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  9. #9

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    I have a pair of Vic Firth marching sticks that I use at times. I actually find them pretty easy to use. I also use some thicker 5A sticks but they are still light - either the Buddy Rich sticks or right now I'm trying out the Cindy Blackman signatures; I like them so far.

  10. #10

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    Same problem with traditional left grip & sliding along the stick. Turns out I hold the stick slightly differently for different rudiments: need more bounce, hold loosely with thumb and maybe one finger on the stick, need more control, hold with 2 fingers and thumb on the stick, etc. So when switching between rudiments for a fill the grip tends to be perfect or wrong. I found practicing the rudiment switch-over points out the obvious grip problem and I have to keep that in mind and just adjust for it.

    On another similar note I've been trying to use a matched grip instead of traditional and have found similar learning & muscle control problems inherent in learning any grip, but the more I use the matched grip, the stronger my traditional grip becomes!
    I thought different sets of muscles came into play but one set seems to help the other!
    And of course if you already know rudiments your left hand is really adjusting to the right's patterns plus your "ear" already knows how the rudiments should sound.
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  11. #11

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    maybe some of you are like me...when playing jazz or blues I use the traditional grip and when rocking hard...matched! I can also if need be float back and forth between the two, and yes it takes time and practice.
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  12. #12

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    I can't play matched on a pad/snare drum only. It feels really weird to have my elbows sticking out. I can rock out trad on the pad, but when it comes to the set, i'm still a little loosey goosey.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
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  13. #13

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    I think when someone starts drum lessons, they should be taught both traditional and match.

    On another forum, the topic of "trad" came up. I was surprised at how many drummers wrote that they wished they could play "trad".

    I started out with "trad" because the few drummers I saw on TV back in the 50's, all used it, so I just figured that was how you had to learn.

    Now, 55 years later, it's as natural to me as walking. MPO is that it's easier to go from "trad" to match, the other way around, from what I've read and seen, is much harder.

  14. #14

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    Might this help in any way? Certainly might test anyone's ambidexterity, for sure.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVBebSbAiRk"]Billy Cobham : Stick handling - YouTube[/ame]
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    I think when someone starts drum lessons, they should be taught both traditional and match.

    On another forum, the topic of "trad" came up. I was surprised at how many drummers wrote that they wished they could play "trad".

    I started out with "trad" because the few drummers I saw on TV back in the 50's, all used it, so I just figured that was how you had to learn.

    Now, 55 years later, it's as natural to me as walking. MPO is that it's easier to go from "trad" to match, the other way around, from what I've read and seen, is much harder.
    I learned trad because I was hardcore into bop, and well, they played trad, so I was gonna play trad.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
    Temple Beth Snare Buzz-Head Rabbi

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyM View Post
    maybe some of you are like me...when playing jazz or blues I use the traditional grip and when rocking hard...matched! I can also if need be float back and forth between the two, and yes it takes time and practice.
    That would be me- I switch back and forth all the time. Although I do have to say it's fun seeing the reaction from people when I rock out HARD playing RUSH with traditional grip!

  17. #17

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    I should note that the main reason for me wanting to learn it is that I damaged my left hand playing german grip - I kept my hand/fingers too tight to get the "control" I needed to play rudiments, otherwise my hand was real sloppy. When using fingers for single stroke roll, my thumb would move and so to compensate I tensed - bad Idea. I also rushed the process and tried to up the tempo too soon. Long story short, I was off the kit for about 8 months. Still not fully healed and probably never will be.
    So now, to keep my hand from feeling tense, I feel the need to learn trad. I've also began using the french grip and it feels a bit better but not ideal. So hard to learn to keep the stick from slicing!
    Anyway, I'm real into jazz myself, even though I haven't learned to play it yet. Wanted to get my technique more solid before I ventured there. Plus c'mon, trad is so sexy looking!

  18. #18

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    ive tried trad. grip and its definitely a commitment. i can do it for bluesy stuff but thats about it. usually resulting in alot of rim slapping and stick collisions.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialAnthony View Post
    That would be me- I switch back and forth all the time. Although I do have to say it's fun seeing the reaction from people when I rock out HARD playing RUSH with traditional grip!

    Even Neil flashes a little trad grip in his concerts.


    I grew up with trad grip and I'm just now trying to work on matched. It feels really weird

  20. #20

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    I play mainly hand drums, but I like using the trad grip when I play a kit. I am a short guy (5' 7") with long arms (35" sleeve) so it gets my elbow out of the way or something. I think it looks cooler when I'm watching a drummer. As trivial as that may sound, drums are the most visual instrument. I say this as someone relatively new to the instrument who spent 50+ years watching drummers before learning how to play.
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