60's era Zildjian hi hats??

[drumsetsnide]

Hi all. I'm going to get some vintage hi hats for a set I'm restoring and putting together (it's a nice surprise for my father as it's his kit he gave me years back when I first started drumming). I want a light to medium-light set of 14" that have that classic warmth with a nice chick and mellow wash when played in a semi-open position. I have been looking around quite a bit and there are many complete sets but then I also have noticed that there are a lot of single tops and bottoms being sold individually and if purchased properly can save some money. I was thinking if I go this rout pairing a top weighing in the range of 600 to 900 grams with a bottom of 900 to 1200 grams respectively. Any thoughts, ideas and comments?

[trickg]

I think that sounds like a great idea. The truth is, you could probably even hook it up with a set of used Zildjian New Beats - just use something like Groove Juice or some other acid based cymbal cleaner and purposefully take the logos off. The only thing there is that sometimes even when the logos are gone they leave a shadow of where they were, and that takes time and handling to go away.

Either way I think you if you could get your hands on some older looking Avedis hats, even if they aren't necessarily "vintage" 60s era hats, you'd be in good shape. I suggested the solution above because often times vintage gear carries a premium for a price. There is this mystique surrounding vintage gear that I don't understand because I don't necessarily think vintage gear sounds any better than current gear, and all things considered, the process of making Zildjian cymbals is supposed to be relatively unchanged, right?

Keep us posted on what you find.

[slinglander]

I'd find a matched pair of 60's zildjians, 14". They're more than likely good for a jazz sound altho I use mine for everything. I've seen them for about $170.00 on "fleabay."

[drumsetsnide]

I think that sounds like a great idea. The truth is, you could probably even hook it up with a set of used Zildjian New Beats - just use something like Groove Juice or some other acid based cymbal cleaner and purposefully take the logos off. The only thing there is that sometimes even when the logos are gone they leave a shadow of where they were, and that takes time and handling to go away.

Either way I think you if you could get your hands on some older looking Avedis hats, even if they aren't necessarily "vintage" 60s era hats, you'd be in good shape. I suggested the solution above because often times vintage gear carries a premium for a price. There is this mystique surrounding vintage gear that I don't understand because I don't necessarily think vintage gear sounds any better than current gear, and all things considered, the process of making Zildjian cymbals is supposed to be relatively unchanged, right?

Keep us posted on what you find.

Well a collector would be able to tell right away, just by looking at the logos, weather they are 50's, 60's etc. I do want to keep the cymbals true to the age of the set for two reasons. First, the set originally had hi hats and a ride true to the age of the set (purchased with the set) and second, for reasons I won't get into, the original cymbals are no longer with the set. I fully understand what you are saying in terms of keeping a vintage look and saving money but I want to keep it true to the way he had it originally. As far as the process of making Zildjian cymbals, they stopped hand hammering in the 30's and there have been some changes in the process over the years (computers guided/controlled machines/tools) verses those controlled by workers hands so I would argue that the sound of cymbals now is more consistent for the same sizes and weight categories than earlier cymbals which would probably have a much broader range in the same size and weight category making older cymbals truly unique (my opinion).

[drumsetsnide]

I'd find a matched pair of 60's zildjians, 14". They're more than likely good for a jazz sound altho I use mine for everything. I've seen them for about $170.00 on "fleabay."

I think you are right in getting a matched pair the more I think of it. But that's why I posted this. Want to get some opinions. I have have seen them go for up to $600.00 on "that site" and in private listings from dealers and shops, depending on the condition of course. I would like to stay under $300.00.

[drumsetsnide]

Think I just found a sweet pair of 14" hats with the 60's era stamp. The top hat is 680 grams and the bottom is 1133 grams and they have a nice patina and sit flat on a mirror with no keyholes, cracks and very minor/superficial nicks (if you can even call them that) on the edge.

[Pearl MCX Man]

I own and play an old set of Zildjian A's ( avedis) from the early 70's and they sound great. Not sure of the cymbal weights buy they are 14 inches. Are the weights stamp on the cymbals I never realy paid attention to that but I will check it out.

[drumsetsnide]

I own and play an old set of Zildjian A's ( avedis) from the early 70's and they sound great. Not sure of the cymbal weights buy they are 14 inches. Are the weights stamp on the cymbals I never realy paid attention to that but I will check it out.

No. The weights are not on the cymbal. At times I ave seen the weights written on the underside of the cymbal (in a sharpie) by someone who has weighed them. This is usually not recommended (why write anything on a cymbal). The most common and least accurate it to weigh them on a scale and convert to pounds. The most accurate is to weigh them on a scale that has grams as a unit of measurement.

[Pearl MCX Man]

No. The weights are not on the cymbal. At times I ave seen the weights written on the underside of the cymbal (in a sharpie) by someone who has weighed them. This is usually not recommended (why write anything on a cymbal). The most common and least accurate it to weigh them on a scale and convert to pounds. The most accurate is to weigh them on a scale that has grams as a unit of measurement.

Thanks, I do have a digital scale that measures both in metric and standard so will give it a try and see how much they weigh.

[drumsetsnide]

Thanks, I do have a digital scale that measures both in metric and standard so will give it a try and see how much they weigh.

I just re-read my post and what I meant to say was weigh them on a scale and convert pounds to grams. Oops... But I think you understood what I meant.

[atomcorr2]

i cant really help with the cymbals , but id like to say that what your doing for your dad , IS AWESOME,,,,, your a good son . and im sure your dad will be totally proud of you . i hope we get to see pics with your dad sitting behind them.

[rickthedrummer]

I have a old set of Zildjian hats from the late 60's or early 70's. I played for a long time with a 15" top and a 14" bottom. Back in the 60's, before everything was mic'ed, they cut through better than the 15" on a 15".

[drumsetsnide]

i cant really help with the cymbals , but id like to say that what your doing for your dad , IS AWESOME,,,,, your a good son . and im sure your dad will be totally proud of you . i hope we get to see pics with your dad sitting behind them.

Thank you for the kind words. He was an inspiration in my drumming when I started at the age of 6. He used that set on and off for years and then passed them to me. 31 years later I'm still playing and loving every minute of it. I want to clean them up and bring them "back to life" and give them back to him until he is no longer able to use them. I will post pics when I finish.

[trickg]

Out of curiosity, and mainly because my idea of using a more modern set of hats that had been made logo-less, is your Dad discerning enough to know the difference between, say a late 80s/early 90s set of New Beats (sans logo, of course) and genuine 60s era Zildjian hats?

[drumsetsnide]

Out of curiosity, and mainly because my idea of using a more modern set of hats that had been made logo-less, is your Dad discerning enough to know the difference between, say a late 80s/early 90s set of New Beats (sans logo, of course) and genuine 60s era Zildjian hats?

As far as sound probably not. But after hearing what I have told him about the different types of stamps Zildjian used he might. Over all if I didn't tell him the answer would have to be no. But I will add that he would probably ask if they were 60's not because he would want them to be but because he likes to ask questions, lol.

[drumsetsnide]

I have a old set of Zildjian hats from the late 60's or early 70's. I played for a long time with a 15" top and a 14" bottom. Back in the 60's, before everything was mic'ed, they cut through better than the 15" on a 15".

Interesting. I have heard of others using hats in that fashion. Never did try it myself. I have also seen people selling hats of different sizes together, a 14" over 13" and, like you mentioned, a 15" over 14". I don't see it it a lot but they are out there.

[drumsetsnide]

Score!!! Got a nice set of 60's era Zildjian hats. They should be arriving later this week. Picked them up for $150.00. I have seen them go from $150 to $800. I think anything over $400 is unnecessary and unjustified so I was really happy to see these. Only took a year to come across these. Also scored a nice Gretsch Round Badge 60's hi hat stand with the clutch and a couple 60's Ludwig cymbal stands complete. This project has been in the works for a few years. The bearing edges, shells and wrap are fantastic as well as the hardware. Now just need to tweak, clean and polish.Then get some nice heads and surprise my father. Super excited!!

[drummer5359]

That is very cool. I have a set of New Beats from 1965 that I bought from the original owner in 1977 or 1978. Great hats, I still use them a lot.

[drumsetsnide]

So I received the new hats last week. They are everything I expected them to be. Very happy with them. The stamp indicates they are 60's era. No warping, key-holing, cracks or dents and only one very small flea bite (barely noticeable). The patina is beautiful, the lathing is great and the sound is phenomenal. Brought them to the drum shop the day I opened the package and the guys there were very impressed with the looks and sound to say the least. And the price for those compared to what I have seen over the years couldn't be beat, $100.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. What a deal.

[MR. G]

all I can say is WOW !

[longgun]

Congrats on the hats...that was one heck of a price.

[drumsetsnide]

When I get a little more proficient with the computer (uploading pics) I will put some up. Actually I will give it a try in a little bit and put them up in a day or so. Let me re-phrase that. When I get a photo bucket account and learn how to use photo bucket I will post them.

[drumsetsnide]

Congrats on the hats...that was one heck of a price.

Thank you. I have been keeping an eye out for a couple years and have seen 50's and 60's era Zildjian hats being sold for $200.00 up to $800.00. It seemed that patience and perseverance and some help from above paid off.

[drumsetsnide]

Here are the hats and the stand.