Settings to get Pro-Sounding Drum Tracks

[trickg]

This is a shout-out to Itchie who said he'd help if I started a new thread on the subject.

Equipment I've got:
Focusrite Saffire Pro-40 interface
iMac
KRK Rokit 6 monitors
KRK KNS 6400 Studio Headphones
Mics - a smattering of stuff ranging from a Shure SM57, to some 58 clones (Behringer XM 8500s) to a pair of Audix Fusion F15 SD condensers

Software I've got:
GarageBand
Logic Studio Pro 9

What I don't have is knowledge when it comes to drums. I've gotten decent at recording vocals, but I'm not sure what I need to do to get the kinds of drum sounds I want to capture. I suppose I could go get a couple of books - that would be easier than trial and error (which is kind of how I learned to do vocal tracks - that along with some reading) but how do you get good recorded drums? Things I'm looking for:

Gain settings - how much, how little?
Compression/Gate settings - there is so much that I don't know about how to use compression and gating.
Mic Placement - I'm fairly adept at placing mics for live sound, but there may be some differences when it comes to the studio.

So, anyone who is good at this, feel free to chime in. The goal here is to put together 2 new demos to give out before the band's next show on March 8th. The songs are established enough and I know the songs well enough that if I could get going with it, I can have a drum track bed laid down so they could each come in and lay down their parts. Maybe this is a pipe dream and we aren't giving ourselves enough time, but I'd like to try anyway.

[trickg]

Something else I should point out, I don't really know how to use Logic Studio. Yet. Again, I should probably buy a book. I can use GarageBand, but I'd like to move forward using Logic.

[nucjd]

Hey trick. Big question you asked.

Some basics.
1. Room acoustics... not only tracking room BUT mixing room. You want your track to transport and if you are mixing in a room that has a 100 hertz standing wave and you don't realize it then you will cut 100 hertz to correct that freq range, BUT when you drop it a friends stereo or your car you will have a 100 hertz freq deficit and you will be asking why does it sound good in my mixing room and not outside of it. Therefore correct you room with acoustic treatment, or mix in a really big room, or use softwware (i.e. ARC) to analyze your room and flatten the frequency response.

2. Eq'ing each trac will depend on your track environment, but what I have noticed on this site is most guys recording do it in a relatively small room therefore I will make that assumption. Bass drum.... smiley face eq setting. Scoop the mids. Subkick. Roll off the high end and allow the bas drum mic to get the slap. Overheads, roll off the low endand allow the other mics to handle those frequency and let the overheads do what they do best and obtain the shimmer and shine of the kit. Snare eq. this one is tricky as it is based on snare tune as well as standing waves in the room but roughly I will boost the really high freq and cut around 200 hertz as sometimes I hear a "honk" tone I don't care for but will be totally different for everyone in this aspect. I also use a super dry batter head. Toms mic eq settings I don't play with too much as the attack will be picked up by the overheads. Room mics I follow the same strategy as the overheads. The Pan on the room mics are a touch wider than the overhead pan. Crush mic (optional) I do not eq it as I compress the crap out of it slip it back into the mix very slightly to a "Vibe". Learned this from metallica's studio engineer.

3. Processing. This is where you will get that in your face sound that you want from you snare. Now it is important to understand a few things. First you need to normalize your strikes. Compression.... It WILL give you the in your face sound on your snare you are looking for. When my brother and I know when we have it dialed in is when you can bypass in and out the compression and with the compression in our meters actually drop BUT the sound is much louder/ in your face creating headroom and the elusive sound we as drummers look for. Now, for this to work you really need normalize and strip silence your snare track to get the best results. Remember just because YOU can't hear a frequency does not mean it is not there and the compressor is working like crazy in but not effecting your sounds as much as you want. Also if you slammed your snare drum on one strike and the compressor is set for that strike then all of the other strikes which were below that strike will not be effected by the compressor. The compressor is key for the sound you want and when I read threads about how someones snare sounds great on a track and what wood is it or what head did they use, I am more concerned with which compressor they used and what were the settings or did they use a limiter. Now on to reverb. One way to give your snare a huge presence is slap a reverb tail on your reso head mic if you are double mic'ing your snare but it will work on the batter head as well. It gives that big long impressive sound we as drummers like. I will also normalize and lightly compress the Bass drum as well.

The tom mic's need to be strip silenced or gated so they don't sit there and sing along with the rest of the kit unless that is what you are going after.

Now onto the master bus. I like to lightly run it through a VLA compressor and VERY lightly compress again. Remember to eq before compression and not vice versa. At this point for flavor but not too much as it needs to go into the mix and the final master will clean up the rest.

So the quick and dirty. I am sure I forgot something and others will chime in with excellent points as well.

[nucjd]

You know, My brother and I were adjusting capacitors and resistors on a Marshal amp last week tweaking the EQ curve. My brother and I had an idea to take a standard mic snake and place the appropriate capacitors and resistors on each snake XLR input to create a passive boost or cut or roll off. Then we would label them Bass drum input, snare input, overhead inputs, etc. Therefore all the drummer would have to do would be to plug the correct cable into the snake and Viola! eq'ing is done. Run it to your interface/ preamps. No fuss, no muss. We could call it a drum box. What do you guys think?

[itchie]

great follow up post nucjd

a few ideas to follow up

Gain settings - how much, how little?

..its usually a question of texture vs peek volume

i have found its best to have the drums max out at -3db (very rarely hit peek).....but try capture the dynamics of the kit ..
.... keep eye on the main stereo mix

Compression/Gate settings - there is so much that I don't know about how to use compression and gating.

if you can dont use them (use them but be tasteful)

Mic Placement - I'm fairly adept at placing mics for live sound, but there may be some differences when it comes to the studio.

chase the flames (wave forms) and make sure you allow air and some distance for the mic ...angles and distances of the mics changes the tones the amount of body..theres lot more to it than that ..

but yeah watch lots of videos , read some books

[DrumRookie]

You know, My brother and I were adjusting capacitors and resistors on a Marshal amp last week tweaking the EQ curve. My brother and I had an idea to take a standard mic snake and place the appropriate capacitors and resistors on each snake XLR input to create a passive boost or cut or roll off. Then we would label them Bass drum input, snare input, overhead inputs, etc. Therefore all the drummer would have to do would be to plug the correct cable into the snake and Viola! eq'ing is done. Run it to your interface/ preamps. No fuss, no muss. We could call it a drum box. What do you guys think?

I think thats pretty cool, great idea! You and your brother are like the Einsteins of drum recording lol
I would buy it if was commercially available.

[slinglander]

You know, My brother and I were adjusting capacitors and resistors on a Marshal amp last week tweaking the EQ curve. My brother and I had an idea to take a standard mic snake and place the appropriate capacitors and resistors on each snake XLR input to create a passive boost or cut or roll off. Then we would label them Bass drum input, snare input, overhead inputs, etc. Therefore all the drummer would have to do would be to plug the correct cable into the snake and Viola! eq'ing is done. Run it to your interface/ preamps. No fuss, no muss. We could call it a drum box. What do you guys think?

Terrific! But I'll still ask you to do the actual recording!

[truckerdrummer]

Distance = depth... Room mics!

[trickg]

Distance = depth... Room mics!

I've got another channel, but I'm out of cables and stands at the moment.

I did some recording with Logic doing close miking, and it's actually not terrible - I ended up using some of the stock Logic settings for the drums and those are actually pretty decent - a good place to start anyway.

Right now I've only got one overhead SD condenser over the kit. I did that for two reasons. One, I wanted to keep it simple and I've read about possible phasing issues - a single mic eliminates that. Two, again - stands and cables. I need at least two more mic stands and enough cable to get two more channels from my room where I have the interface to the room where I have the kit. A side thought to that is that maybe a snake would be a handy investment to make because I'm connecting two cables for each of the six channels I'm using.

I'm all ears - if anyone has any other tips or pointers, or even if you know of a good online video tutorial, let me know.

[truckerdrummer]

http://recordinghacks.com/2010/04/03...ue-comparison/

i'm one of those guys that loves to get alot of overhead/room mic into the mix. this site gives some comparisons of different techniques. if you're worried about phase issues because you're just getting started i'd say start with either the x/y because the mics are so close phase really isn't a problem, or the recorderman which is pretty easy to measure out. when i do demos i usually just use the recorderman method with a kick mic and it sounds pretty tight.

[trickg]

http://recordinghacks.com/2010/04/03...ue-comparison/

i'm one of those guys that loves to get alot of overhead/room mic into the mix. this site gives some comparisons of different techniques. if you're worried about phase issues because you're just getting started i'd say start with either the x/y because the mics are so close phase really isn't a problem, or the recorderman which is pretty easy to measure out. when i do demos i usually just use the recorderman method with a kick mic and it sounds pretty tight.

UPDATE:

I did some recording over this last week, and my initial attempts were done with my overheads just kind of placed haphazzardly. I changed this to the Recorderman placement technique and was blown away by both how simple it was, and by the results it obtained. I'll be using this from now on.

Something else to ask about though - I hadn't thought to gate the toms to rid them of some of the bleed from the other parts of the kit - is it totally necessary? Here's what I set up:

1 - Snare - SM57
1 - Kick - Shure SM7B
2 - OVH - Audix Fusion 15, Recorderman technique
3(1 ea) - Toms - CAD TM211 - (Not great, but it's what I've got)
1 - Room - MXL V67G - 6 feet in front of the kit, centered on the kit both vertically and horizontally

I'm getting most of what I want from the snare, kick, the overheads and room mic (compressed to thicken the drums overall) and the tom mics add some color and boost to the toms. When I was mixing them with the other channels muted, I was getting some quiet bleed from the rest of the kit, but I never though to gate them because overall I wasn't displeased with the mix and for the song, it's high energy so it's a pretty full sound I was going for.

I might try gating them to see if it helps, but the more I read and learn about recording and mixing, and the more I listen to songs from a mixing perspective, the more I realize that there doesn't seem to be a "right" way to do anything, and that there are as many ways to mix a kit on classic recordings as there are classic recordings. Just the same, I don't want to develop bad habits that cut across the grain of industry best practices either.

[truckerdrummer]

i'm glad the recorderman set up worked out for you... it's a pretty dry tight sound which i tend to prefer because i don't have the best room... as for gating the toms, if you have the luxury of recording everything on separate tracks, you're in good shape because you can do an A/B comparison during mixdown and see if it makes a difference to your ears. i'm kind of a noob myself to the actual engineering part of recording but i've been around the studio and behind the live soundboard alot over the years. In reaper there are stock plugins for "kick gate" "snare gate" "tom gate"....see if you've got something like that.. all i do is grab one of those and adjust so the meters don't jump when the drum isn't playing. still let the full sustain of the drum come through without cutting it off. just eliminate the mud.... i've found in a live sound setting getting rid of the mud makes for a much more spacious and clean mix. Just because you don't really hear something doesn't mean it isn't there. i'm sure that translates to the recording studio as well... keep us posted on how you're doing man. i'm starting to really get into this recording thing alot more too!

[itchie]

lately iv been using close mics (toms, snare etc)..only as reinforcement for over heads almost no decay, using the kick almost like a click makes the attack predominate

also finding the dirty sounds come out better in the final mix with cleaner (open) songs ...cleaner drums sound better with dirty guitars

[truckerdrummer]

when i've had the opportunity to mix bands live in a great sounding room i've always gone overhead heavy in the mix and just used the close mics to sweeten it up and add a little bottom to it. so that's kinda how i've been going about mixing a recording. i just wish i had a better room and more time to mess around with stuff. having the live sound backround, i've come a long way in a hurry... but a guy still needs practice!!!