Sitting in etiquette - opinions wanted

[Redeye]

I'm going to trust my online buddies to be totally honest with me here and let me know if I'm acting like a jerk...

I've got about 9 months and a 15 or so gigs in with my current band. We had a very nice sized show tonight with a couple hundred people in a typical bar, and it was our first time there, so we wanted everything to go well. During the first set break, an unknown guy comes up to me and proceeds to tell me his entire life's drumming history, which to be honest sounds impressive. I know what was coming and he eventually gets around to asking me if he could play a tune. In my mind, I'm screaming "This is such bad form. Are you seriously approaching someone you have never met, that has never heard you play, and imposing like this?" Of course, I am too spineless to say any of that, and he is awfully polite, so I reluctantly agree. When we get to the planned tune, everyone else in the band vetoes the idea, which they were not sold on it in the first place anyway, so I relent. Of course now I have to tell the ultra nice dude the scoop, and just my luck he walks up after the set with a beer for me (sigh). Of course I throw my singer under the bus and tell him that I was down, but no one else was comfy with the situation. Surprisingly, he then gets pissed. I walk and avoid him for the rest of the evening. On the very last tune, he actually jumps on stage and takes a secondary mic and proceeds to sing along...very well. No one seems upset, so I roll with it. A very strange night indeed.

So...my question to you all is how you feel about sitting in. Personally, I would never, ever, ask outright. I might approach the drummer with a compliment, and mention I play, but that's it. If I get a shout out to play at any time, I only do so if I at least know and have played with someone in the band or I really know the tune they propose. Most of the time I just watch, because a night out without having to work is rare. Everyone has their set of people they interact with musically, and I have several friends that I impose upon to sit in for me all the time. I will also let anyone sit in that someone else in my band knows can play even if I don't know them. In that case I watch closely at least right away to make sure nothing is going badly with my stuff. With complete strangers, it depends. If we were in our "home" bar and there were 20 people there, sure. A brand new place with 250, probably not, sorry.

Two additional things...If the person I had this interaction with is a drumchat member without my knowledge, I am deeply sorry this went afoul, but I had to vent. Also, telling a story in present tense is surprisingly hard.

Go.

[rickthedrummer]

You just tell them no. I have never asked to sit in (not counting jams in the city, but that's a different ballgame).

I have played with other bands, BUT, that's only if I was asked to sit in.

Your band is used to your style, I understand why they were against it.

Don't feel bad about it because it will happen a lot.

[Russ]

He came across nice at first, but then turned slightly jerkish when he did that. However, it takes serious guts to go against an entire band and throw yourself to the mercy of the entire venue and do a song or two. He displayed a lot of confidence and held his head high, a real "take no prisoners, won't take no for an answer" kind of guy. It was kind of wrong, but it reminded me a little bit of Keith Moon prior to joining The Who- in a way. He knew music, he knew drumming, and dangit he was gonna show the world.

[steveplaysyamaha]

Its hard to say no to a nice person, but after only having known them a few minutes how could you really get to know the actual character of their intent?

Shame on that person for even ASKING to sit-in. Have respect for the band, and especially the drummer since its apparently a fellow DC member.

[STACK57]

Shane, sorry for the unpleasant experience. I have never had that happen to me personally but I have been in some venues to hear a band play where I know the drummer and have seen it come up before. My friend has a pat answer that covers it with no hard feelings. Since his band and most sign some sort of contract he simply states that the insurance requirements for the venue prevent anyone from outside the contracted band members to perform. He says sorry, love to hear you but it just can't happen. He tells me that there has never been an issue after that, except for the occasional drunk who has to be escorted out by the staff.

[Tadman]

Never had it happen in the nicely presented, seems like has drumming chops kind of way. Has been presented by folks you sense (alarms ringing in head) should not be allowed near the stage let alone your kit. Good to just have standard policy of no, unless worked out long beforehand with you, or your drummer idol walks up, complements you, and suggests you trade drum solos.

[inthpktplayer]

Probably should have gone with your original thoughts on this and said no. I don't think you are ever obliged to let a complete stranger sit in. I'll bet that most of us wouldn't even think of asking someone else that we don't even know to let us sit in. That this guy even asked you should have raised a red flag. Don't feel bad about this.

[kyle102565]

unless i know who you are and know that you can play you still arent playing my drums at my bands gig.
what an obnoxious jerk. reminds me of Spicolli jumping on stage to sing Wooly Bully.
its perfectly ok to tell someone in the 21st century "NO"
i go out to see local bands from time to time and will chat with the drummer before a gig, look at his setup etc. but thats it.
id never ask to play a kit that just got setup, mic'd and tuned. its just plain rude and disrepectful.
edit: he couldnt have been that good. any self respecting drummer would have respected the giggin drummer and never asked. on the other hand if i was to ask him with the bands aproval that would be mutual respect.. it would have been great to let him sit in and find out he stinks, then the crowd could boo him off stage and send him back to the rock he crawled out from.
what a wanker

[atomcorr2]

i run into that problem pretty often, i never let somebody that i dont know play my drums . i just explain to them that we are contracted to play the job and we dont let people sit-in... i had one guy tell me how great he was ,and that he wanted to show his friends how great he played drums ,after all he said "ive played drums for 4 years ".. i still said no. but he kept bugging me about it and even walked on the stage during our break, and started to go behind my drums, this guy would not take no for an anwser. so as he tried to get behind my drums ,i grabbed the back of his shirt to stop him. he looked at me like he wanted to kill me , and things got a little ugly for a min. or two. luckily the bouncer in the club was watching this and came to give me a hand with getting this guy off the stage. then the bouncer took him outside .... some people just dont get it and have to learn the hard way . stick to your guns , they are YOUR drums , if that guy would break your cymbals or your heads or hit one of your edges, your in for a big bill , and hes going home happy.. lol JUST SAY NO!!!!!!

[trickg]

Totally bad form for the guy to ask to sit in IMO. You have to ask the question of what drives someone to even think that it's ok to do that - it's not his gig, it's your gig. I would have told him no and that it is band policy that you don't allow sit-ins.

Now, having said that, in the 10 years I gigged with the wedding band, we had a couple of people take the stage on behalf of the bride and groom who specifically requested it - usually someone singing a specific song (one night this drunk buffoon got up on stage and totally butchered "Brown Eyed Girl" which was one of my songs) but only once did we have a guy sit in on drums - again, at the special request of the bride and groom. In this case, the guy was actually doing sessions in/around Nashville - this cat could play. I can't think of his name off the top of my head - if I remember, I'll come back and post it.

Otherwise, for some guy to just walk up in a club or bar and ask to sit in....man, that's pretty tacky IMO.

[Northern Redneck]

you just tell them no. I have never asked to sit in (not counting jams in the city, but that's a different ballgame).

I have played with other bands, but, that's only if i was asked to sit in.

Your band is used to your style, i understand why they were against it.

Don't feel bad about it because it will happen a lot.

x2

[Digital]

As much as I'd like to be nice to everyone...I couldn't agree to have someone sit in on my drum kit, at my venue. Let them work hard to land a decent band and gigs. This stuff doesn't just happen. You work hard for it, don't let someone just swoop in and upstage you.

The only time I'd let someone sit in is if they were really good friends that I knew could play the song(s). Many bands have guest appearances from time to time...but not perfect strangers. That's just incredibly weird.

Politely decline and don't let them guilt you into this situation again.

[Kazaamski]

That was bad form on the other guy's part. I wouldn't let anyone sit in...at a gig. If it was just a practice, and Jonny Playsalot's cousin Ima Drumplayer was in town, and asked to sit in, that would be different. I would say yes. Cause I have asked to sit in at friend's practices. Keywords, FRIEND's and PRACTICE.

[trickg]

In this case, the guy was actually doing sessions in/around Nashville - this cat could play. I can't think of his name off the top of my head - if I remember, I'll come back and post it.

Tanner Jacobsen - I'd love to touch base with him again. His drumming was really polished and what I loved about it was the nuance he brought to everything he played. He sat down behind our drummer's kit, didn't adjust anything, and he looked like he'd been playing it his whole life.

[Redeye]

Thanks everyone for the votes in my favor. I basically knew I handled the situation poorly at first, but in the end I feel no guilt about how it went down. I like the "band contracted" to play answer to that question. We have had several people ask to sit in at our home bar, but usually the singer vetoes the idea before I get approached directly. I really want to keep the peace at gigs and not come off like some elitist, but dealing with people and alcohol (me included) at the same time rarely goes as planned.

[groovearteest]

I had something similar happen at my church once. I was playing at an afternoon service where we invite other churches to come, and we let guest choirs sing and there musicians play for their choirs. But one guy was so eager to play in the middle of the song i was playing, the guy basically booted me off the drums right then and there. I didnt even get a chance to say no he just up and takes em. The thing that irritated me most was that its in the middle of my choirs song, the drumset is mine, and the service for a pastor and wifes appreciation service and my grandparents are pastor and wife so for them and my other family to watch me get booted like that was a bit more than embarrasing. Luckily my uncle who is a very accomplished drummer came and took over from that guy then gave the drums back to me.

[Russ]

I think of it like wins and losses more than anything else really. Who gets the pay for the gig if you're not drumming for your own band? Does he? Also, did he pay for the kit as well as haul it around gig to gig? How long has he been with your band, practiced their songs, and gotten acquainted with them? If you answered n/a to any of these questions I believe you know what to do next time the situation comes up. He's got to earn the right to sit in, or else compensate you for time and money lost.

[jgraham798]

But one guy was so eager to play in the middle of the song i was playing, the guy basically booted me off the drums right then and there. I didnt even get a chance to say no he just up and takes em.

I would have had a very hard time being nice in a situation like that. I don't like trouble, but no one's going to just "TAKE" over my set in any situation...

Doesn't it just make you wonder what some people are thinking?

[Tadman]

I had something similar happen at my church once. I was playing at an afternoon service where we invite other churches to come, and we let guest choirs sing and there musicians play for their choirs. But one guy was so eager to play in the middle of the song i was playing, the guy basically booted me off the drums right then and there. I didnt even get a chance to say no he just up and takes em. The thing that irritated me most was that its in the middle of my choirs song, the drumset is mine, and the service for a pastor and wifes appreciation service and my grandparents are pastor and wife so for them and my other family to watch me get booted like that was a bit more than embarrasing. Luckily my uncle who is a very accomplished drummer came and took over from that guy then gave the drums back to me.

Middle of service presents two challenges, one--not getting consumed in volcanic amazement at the guy's forcefulness and messing up the service/song, two--dealing with someone with such an absolute lack of care or understanding of the "wrong" juggernaut actions at issue. Glad it worked out great, and hope for you and all of us that we have to deal with such persons rarely. Guard dogs around set?

[Pearl MCX Man]

Nice guy or not the answer should of been NO right off the bat IMO. Now if a drummer like Neil Peart came and asked to sit in I would not turn him away and the band would not object I hope LOL..

[MR. G]

my take on this is : I would have to be invited on to play. I would entertain any discussions prior and if the question somehow came up, (that he wanted to sit in) seems only right to check with the rest of the band.

[Drumbledore]

A drummer who would call themselves 'professional' would not have imposed a thing like that on you, Shane. If I see a good drummer playing on a night, I'll introduce myself, talk a little 'shop' about drums in general, maybe some other small talk, but that's it. If, and only if I know the band pretty well plus I know a few of the tunes, but most importantly, if I've been asked first will I then maybe sit in for a song or two. Otherwise I'm happy to watch another player do their stuff. The guys have got you in the band because they are comfortable playing with you, not someone else, and especially not some random geezer that you guys haven't met before.

Put it this way......ever seen orchestral players pull off a stunt like that? Not very likely, lol.

[doctor dirt]

Just say no one sits in! Thats it change the subject and never listen to life long stories. Heres one for you I use every once in a while. "do you have a job? Good can I show up at your job and walk around you talking your head off while you work?
If your the type that gets all the *******s on breaks just head for the door and take a 5mins walk then go back in the bar. That usually knocks the jerks off stride.


I have to say this, if and when someone jumps up on your stage and the bar doesn't have bouncers to handle it just stop playing!!! Tell the guy its his last chance to leave the stage!! Usually people in the bar will rag on him to get off, if not get him off!

As for me and my bands we tell the jerks to get off or we'll beat the snot out of them, right there and right now! My stage is mine and if I want to share it ask on a break, then thats it. No one gets on my stage! I'm NOT BSing one bit, even now as an old beat up drummer who's crippled up pretty good I will stop the band immediately and you have a few seconds to get off, if not I'm coming to take you off! Now a sweet little thing who wants to dance with the drummer thats ok!!! No touching mics hahahaha!!! Last jerk was about 12 years ago, between the band and the bouncers that boy took one hell of a beating, he was asked to get, he said NO!! What a jerk. Doc

[DrumRookie]

Now I REALLY know why they have those (seemingly) bulletproof acrylic drum shields up there!

[MartyM]

as the others have said...NO means NO..now I have to admit that long ago I hung out a bar ( after I had put up my sticks ) and the band that was playing had announced that if anyone wanted to sit in on guitar or drums just come on up and put your name on a list, and if your name got called you had your chance...I got called, had some fun, just played a blues tune so it was not as bad as it could have been, not to mention I had been there partying most of the night. But my point is.. you have to be asked.