I'm in an argument with a guy from my school right now about the importance of drummers. I was in a Jam Band with him and because of my tight schedule, I can't play with them anymore. I recemended some other drummers in our area and he said that they weren't good enough for what he needed. (This statement got me extra mad, because, no offense to him, but he's not the best Bassist around either.
So Here's the rest of our convo: (His name is Rob)
Me: Well then I guess you'll be an acoustic show, Rob if you don't have an open mind about this.
Rob: Well. In all onisty you don't need a drummer unless you have the right one lol.
Me: To make the music u want you need a drummer, Rob. It doesn't matter how good the talent is, the drummer is what holds a band together, the drums can make or brake a song. So don't go saying you don't need a drummer. A drummer is ONE of the MOST important person in a band.
Rob: You really don't need a drummer aha. For any sort of recording there is very good programs for that. For performing as long as everyone has a sense of rythmn it's all good. Drummers do not contribute to the chord that make up a song.
So I was wondering what you guys were thinking.
Thanks so much!
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Drummers are very important.
It's not worth an argument. It's simply not important enough. He'll learn through his own experience how valuable drummers are. In the meantime, you're time is better spent in the practice room getting better.
Tom says it best I think. Although I had to chuckle at your last comment Paradise- you're on a drummer's forum, what do THINK we're gonna say to those comments!!
+1 Totally agree with this. He's yanking your chain, so the only way to not let it happen is to allow him his opinion and let the conversation end. When he's trying to stay with a static drum machine/program, rather than with a live drummer that can adjust to the rest of the band, then he'll suddenly realize the difference.
For now, though, you can't debate with a closed mind. It just ends up being a never ending argument.
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Yeah....until he comes across a number of drummers who also know their way around another instrument. Last time I had somebody say that to me, I wandered over to a nearby piano, asked him to play me the chords he was playing, asked him what key he was playing in, then proceeded to tell him two inversions of one basic chord he was playing, a variation of another chord he was chugging away at, then showed how no matter what chordal instrument you're on, smooth chord voicing in conjunction with a melody line will give a better sound than blocky sounding riffs any day. Then asked him if he'd like me to write it down so that he would 'get it.' Told him I knew next to nothing about this stuff six months before I did my music course, but at least I pulled my finger out and studied it (and am still working on it). So there's nothing better than to give those kind of arrogant musicians a taste of their own medicine back (or at least make it a little diplomatic so that their own guilty consciousness sets in, as you explain ever so politely and eruditely about suspended chords, phrasing, modes and so forth), because then they'll think twice about saying something as stupid as us drummers not being important.
Definitely, I do not suffer such fools gladly.
+1000 on that!
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It's like he's saying guitars and bass are more needed than drummers? Hahaha! Drummers are the heartbeat, of course you need them. Show me out of the best programs out there who can bring style, fill ideas, and also keep the beat as well as a real drummer can. I'd love to see a Dennis Chambers, Steve Gadd, Mike Johnston, or Simon Phillips do within even 1/1,000,000th of their ability. Also, can the program even sound natural and not sample ridden? A drum machine's "tracks" are good for practicing, but I wouldn't joke around and use that stuff live. Machines do not replace humans John Connor.
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I think just the fact that there are drum machines underscores how important drums are to music - that if you can't have a live drummer, you have to have at least something to fill that void. Ask your friend why there are no bass or guitar machines!
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Sorry, but the energy from the drummer is what drives the energy overal in a band. Without the drummer, there is simply no energy. How goes the drummer goes the band. No machine can duplicate that.
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Well said. I will echo that and add that you cannot get the spirit, feeling, mood, emotion, nuances, creativity and dynamics out of any machine. True musicians and songwriters use drum machines as a reference or starting point but always employ a drummer to truly give life to the song.
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I think this is hilarious coming from a bassist. As important as a bassist is, in my opinion, is the least important of a standard band. Seriously, unless the song is very bass-guitar oriented, do ever REALLY hear it?
My point is...if the bassist misses a note or two, no one in the audience knows it. If a drummer misses a groove or has bad timing on a splash accent/crash, everyone knows it.
I still want to punch him.
A jam band with no drums? That just can't be right. I'm not really into that stuff, but I thought that the answer in that genre was more drums. Somebody's got to keep it together while the guitars and keys are doing all their goofy noodling.
I've played out on bass, guitar, and drums over the years and it seems like saying that you're the guitar player gives you some sort of instant credibility with non/poor musicians that bass and drums don't. I think it's because lots of people think "hey, how hard can it be to count to four."
Mmm... Saturns.
" hey, how hard can it be to count to four."
I'm still living in Jersey. We have a lot of people here who can count to 4, but they can't get past 10 unless they take their shoes off.
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There are good drummers and there are bad drummers. A good drummer can often have the ability to make a semi-talented band sound great. A bad drummer can make a talented band sound awful. I've seen it - most of us have. It's not even an argument - it's proven in most bars and clubs every night all over the world
This one time .. .. at Jam band .. .. I wacked the bassist with his bass.
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Actually, the great thing about my old Roland R-70 drum machine is that it does have four bass guitar sounds.....you can assign a full octave and a bit onto the 16 large buttons and do all sorts of things with them. I use this all the time when teaching over here. Being familiar with it, it's just as easy for me to step-write a walking bassline on it as it is to pop in a full drum part or a percussion track. Makes a great alternative to just playing along to a 1/4 note cowbell track.
Best thing to use to tell a silly bassist...."Oh yeah??? Try this bassline, it goes so well with my drum part, why can't you do it?
Last edited by Drumbledore; 02-23-2012 at 04:36 AM.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
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"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
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