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Thread: Jazz drums in rock

  1. #1

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    Default Jazz drums in rock

    I am looking at a couple of different Mapex jazz style drums to purchase. Great shape, great price for both. I just wanted everybody's opinion as to what that would sound like if I were to venture off into alternative - heavy rock sometimes. Anybody with experience in this situation?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Jazz drums in rock

    Welcome to Drum Chat mattcash83!

    Matt, I've got a '90's Catalina Elite 4 piece - 18X16 bass, 12X8 ride tom, 14X14 floor tom, 14X5 snare - that I used on a gig this past weekend. It covered everything just fine, from contemporary worship music to Classic Rock. My first choice is my 6 piece Catalina kit - 22X18 bass, 10X8 RT, 12X9 RT, 14X14 FT, 16X16 FT, 14X5.5 Mapex Black Panther Deep Forest Cherry snare. In some cases, though, space can be an issue, so the 4 piece works best. Keep in mind, too, that a jazz setup can be mic'ed to make it sound bigger.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Jazz drums in rock

    Jazz is basically tuned the same as a Rock but a little tighter. You can still use the same configuration. I saw this in a drum video where the Drummer was showing the differences of tuning drums from Rock, Jazz and Latino.

  4. #4

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    Mattcash....when you're talking about jazz style, do you mean smaller diameter and smaller depth drums, such as a 20"x16" or even a 20"x14" bass drum as opposed to a more common 22" bass drum, (roughly) 10"x8" and 12"x8" sized rack toms as opposed to approximately 12"x9" and 13"x10" rack toms, and a 14"x14" floor tom instead of a 16"x16" floor tom?

    From my experience, live, smaller drums tuned slightly higher than the usual thump you might say get out of your normal sized rock kit, usually work better because they'll cut through a loud band a bit more. I find that if I'm in a rehearsal room or stage with mid-tuned larger drums, the snare will cut like the cymbals, and the kick will have that thump if tuned ok, but once that bass guitar is plugged in and played loud.....all the mid range fat overtones from the toms will just disappear. Smaller drums, get them tuned just a bit higher will sound like they're a tiny bit tinny by themselves (depends on what heads you've got, less so with thicker heads, but with Coated Remo Ambassadors with little or no muffling....oh, they'll ring a bit alright, lol)....however, plug the rest of the band in, and sure enough the extra ringiness will somewhat be 'soaked up' by the rest of the guys' instruments.

    Studio situations though, I'll tend to keep the tuning a bit lower and 'normal' (if you can call it that somehow). I have different drums for different situations, however my 'main' kit has 8x6", 10x8" and 12x8" rack toms, 13x9" & 14x10" rack toms as 'floor toms' (though this will change to 14x10" and a proper 16x16" floor tom), a 20x14" bass drum (or an 18x12" or even two 20x14" bass drums, depends on the music). Sometimes the rack toms will be two or one, with one or two floor toms. Snares vary between 14x6.5" to 12x4", though usually it's 13" snares I go for.

    Two alternate or heavy drummers I can think of off the top of my head (at this time of night.....but I can think of more as I type, lol) that use small stuff? 'Herb' Alexander from Primus and Kenneth Schalk, ex-Candiria. He's playing for Fuel now. But he also plays with a jazz hip hop band, Mister Sparx. I'm sure with those guys he still plays small diameter stuff.
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  5. #5

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    Default Re: Jazz drums in rock

    all anyone ever needs is one up, one down.
    any "jazz" kit will work for all genres.
    wanna rock go ahead, wanna get jazzy or bluesy go ahead.
    jazz is a technique, the kit doesnt matter.
    Gretsch jazz kits are a good deal these days in a world of pricey drums

  6. #6

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    Welcome aboard, matt!

    I wouldn't worry so much about how many drums you have as to how you use them. One of my favorite local drummers--a big-band leader with a 17-piece orchestra--has used the same set (three up, two down with snare and Bellson-style double bass) in all types of music. I've even heard him play a four-piece and make it sound like the big kit, and that, man, takes practice!
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  7. #7

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    Drumbledore, you pegged my question on the head, yes smaller dimensions! Thanks for the input on that, I kinda had a feeling the answer would be close to this. All else, thanks for the input. Mapex kit, here I come!!

  8. #8

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    I don't think that the smaller drums would be an issue, especially if you're going to be mic'd up. Head choices, tuning, and technique will be a factor, but I see no reason to stay away from smaller kicks.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  9. #9

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    I play heavy metal and I play small drums. My sizes are 20x18 kick, 10x8 rack, 14x11 floor and 13x6.5 snare. I have zero issues other than the kick is tough to hear in a non-mic'd situation...but the 22" I used before wasn't any better.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    Two alternate or heavy drummers I can think of off the top of my head (at this time of night.....but I can think of more as I type, lol) that use small stuff? 'Herb' Alexander from Primus and Kenneth Schalk, ex-Candiria.
    There's also Igor Cavalera:



    Well... he plays 20" kick drums! lol
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by xweasel View Post
    There's also Igor Cavalera:



    Well... he plays 20" kick drums! lol
    I've seen that kit before and I still can't get over the tom's - I'm sure the one on his left is bigger than his bass drums. Pretty cool though.

    Also, is that a dedicated cymbal stand used to hold a couple of sticks set up just to the left of the big tom on the left?
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  12. #12

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    I play small. Well, it's the only set I have here where I'm at now. 18 kick 10 rack and 14 floor. I play everything on it, from calypso to rock no problem. (seldom if ever miked) Mind you, we don't play anything heavier than the odd Lynard Skynard or Hendrix cover. To me great drums sound great, always!

    all the best...

  13. #13

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    Smaller drums will work. I read in an interview with Elvin Jones, the only reason they switched to smaller bass drums for jazz was cause they fit in cabs better. :D
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazaamski View Post
    Smaller drums will work. I read in an interview with Elvin Jones, the only reason they switched to smaller bass drums for jazz was cause they fit in cabs better. :D
    Yes. That's true. Jazz wasn't about the luxurious life-styles of the rock guys. Most of them lived pretty hand to mouth existences. Smaller drums were just so much more portable, but after a while they came almost synonomous with the be bop style.

    all the best...

  15. #15

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    I 've been playing more Proggy / Jazzy stuff with a small kit: 18" kick, 6" 8' 12", 14" toms, and have gotten to prefer the little kick to my big 22". I was asked to sit in with a cookie-monster punk band for a show, and I took this little kit to the practice, thinking I'd switch out for the actual show. Now, I think I'll take the little kit and let the mikes do all the work. If you are miking, the size of the kit doesn't matter.

    I had a friend who took his ****tail kit to a show with several bands. The sound man told him after ward that he was able to get the best kick drum sound out of his ****tail setup!
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by =^-..-^= View Post
    I 've been playing more Proggy / Jazzy stuff with a small kit: 18" kick, 6" 8' 12", 14" toms, and have gotten to prefer the little kick to my big 22". I was asked to sit in with a cookie-monster punk band for a show, and I took this little kit to the practice, thinking I'd switch out for the actual show. Now, I think I'll take the little kit and let the mikes do all the work. If you are miking, the size of the kit doesn't matter.

    I had a friend who took his ****tail kit to a show with several bands. The sound man told him after ward that he was able to get the best kick drum sound out of his ****tail setup!
    Totally unbiased opinion, but I feel like I consistently have the best sounding kit at gigs my band plays. Small sizes, birch. They really cut nicely. I get a TON of complitments from other drummers and sound guys.

  17. #17

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    I have always felt that playing Jazz or Blues is truly ( to sound corny ) a FEEL while playing!..more than your set type! when I pick up a pair of brushes something changes in me as the way I play, don't get me wrong Techique is true for all music types, but start a blues riff on the base guitar and I CHANGE.
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    The 3 piece blues rock band I play in performed "Strange Brew & Fire" the other night and I was useing my Jazz Catalina kit. and it rocked. It's not the drums or drum sizes that define if you can rock them or not.
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  19. #19

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    I agree with Vibes...."Strange Brew"?"Fire"? Really can't think of two more different songs. And I'm so glad you did them!
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by marko138 View Post
    Totally unbiased opinion, but I feel like I consistently have the best sounding kit at gigs my band plays. Small sizes, birch. They really cut nicely. I get a TON of complitments from other drummers and sound guys.
    Absolutely, Brother Marko. I've been playing small diameter stuff for as long as I can remember. A friend of mine, Pete, has a small one-room project studio in the inner west of Sydney here and he said that he loves recording my Roger's kick....he was so used to guys coming in with 22" and 24" bass drums, which tend to be either way too ringy for the mic's or overly stuffed with muffling....I came in with my little 20" bass drum with one small cushion touching the insides of both heads and he said it has the best controlled tone and thump that he ever came across....those are his words.

    I'm tempted to turn up one day with an even smaller 18x12" Pearl-Maxwin/Gretsch/Tama/Dixon/Ludwig/whatchamacallit mongrel hybrid that I've had put together and tell him "...hey Pete, the bass drum went in the wash and got shrunk, unfortunately....but hey, if you can stick this mic on it, man, you can do miracles, right?"
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    Absolutely, Brother Marko. I've been playing small diameter stuff for as long as I can remember. A friend of mine, Pete, has a small one-room project studio in the inner west of Sydney here and he said that he loves recording my Roger's kick....he was so used to guys coming in with 22" and 24" bass drums, which tend to be either way too ringy for the mic's or overly stuffed with muffling....I came in with my little 20" bass drum with one small cushion touching the insides of both heads and he said it has the best controlled tone and thump that he ever came across....those are his words.

    I'm tempted to turn up one day with an even smaller 18x12" Pearl-Maxwin/Gretsch/Tama/Dixon/Ludwig/whatchamacallit mongrel hybrid that I've had put together and tell him "...hey Pete, the bass drum went in the wash and got shrunk, unfortunately....but hey, if you can stick this mic on it, man, you can do miracles, right?"
    LOL. Funny. You should totally do it.


    When we hit the studio back in November the engineer seemed pleasantly surprised that there was nothing inside my bass drum.

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