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Thread: In regards to tom mounting..

  1. #1

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    Default In regards to tom mounting..

    For anyone with an ear to what's up and coming, I had a question about tom mounts. Are any drum or hardware companies going to come out with more types of isolation suspension mounting systems for toms? By isolation mounting systems I mean stuff like starcast, optimount, dss, iss, etc? Will there be more choices available any time soon in the future?
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  2. #2

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    I heard about a mounting system coming down the pipe that involves strong magnets, which allows each drum to free float in mid air, untouched by any outside hardware.








    ...

  3. #3

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    Who knows what the future holds for any hardware. Manufacturers are always looking at better mounts etc. Have to wait and see but the magnet sounds interesting.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    Who knows what the future holds for any hardware. Manufacturers are always looking at better mounts etc. Have to wait and see but the magnet sounds interesting.
    I think areFish was kidding....

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    I think areFish was kidding....
    I think so lol. Though it would be an interesting concept
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  6. #6

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    There is a magnetic repulsion kick pedal, so....why not mag repulsion Tom mounts? Might cause microphone problems, tho!
    SONOR 6 pc Special Edition 3007's red maple, old Pearl Brass 14x6 FF snare, Yamaha Tour Custom maple 8 pc., Tama 4 pc., honey amber B/B, Ludwig Supralite chrome 14x6.5 steel snare, Paiste, Saluda & Zildjian
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    There is a magnetic repulsion kick pedal, so....why not mag repulsion Tom mounts? Might cause microphone problems, tho!
    Wow, I knew nothing of this. I just googled it haha.
    Edit: and yes, microphone issues would probably be my reason for not wanting to buy anything magnetic.

    Drumnetics magnetic bass drum pedal.
    Last edited by Ciz; 07-31-2012 at 09:00 PM.
    Dw | Zildjian | Pro-Mark | Evans

  8. #8

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    I think that pedal just looks cool...
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    There is a magnetic repulsion kick pedal, so....why not mag repulsion Tom mounts? Might cause microphone problems, tho!
    I say just attach little jet packs to the drums with just enough thrust to keep em up where you want em.

    all the best...

  10. #10

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    Why are people always trying to re-invent the wheel or the mouse trap? I never saw any problem with tom mounting even before the isolation craze came along.

    all the best...

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Why are people always trying to re-invent the wheel or the mouse trap? I never saw any problem with tom mounting even before the isolation craze came along.

    all the best...
    I agree with you man. When I purchased my MCX in the first year of production I think it was 2005-6 they came with mounted toms and then the next year they went virgin they call it. I always loved mounted toms but I guess the reason for going virgin was to sell more stands or to keep the weight off the bass drum

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Why are people always trying to re-invent the wheel or the mouse trap? I never saw any problem with tom mounting even before the isolation craze came along.

    all the best...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I agree with you man. When I purchased my MCX in the first year of production I think it was 2005-6 they came with mounted toms and then the next year they went virgin they call it. I always loved mounted toms but I guess the reason for going virgin was to sell more stands or to keep the weight off the bass drum
    For both of you. Ever notice the difference in sound and resonance with drums attached/mounted directly to the mounting system and extra hardware on the shells verses those that use isolation mounts? Huge difference. Mounting hardware attached directly to the drum chokes the drum noticeably and reduces resonance and sustain noticeably. Nobody is reinventing the wheel. The wheel is the wheel. They are just putting different tires on the wheel to improve the ride, response, noise, traction, etc.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciz View Post
    Wow, I knew nothing of this. I just googled it haha.
    Edit: and yes, microphone issues would probably be my reason for not wanting to buy anything magnetic.

    Drumnetics magnetic bass drum pedal.
    Not sure how you would change the tension or in this case the resistance. Would you put stronger or lighter magnets on the pedal to increase or decrease the "tension?" I don't understand this design and I'm having trouble understanding the idea behind it. I know that when the poles of the magnets are facing each other they resist each other but I don't fully understand the idea for a bass drum pedal.
    TAMA- '2018 Star Walnut, ‘99 Starclassic Performer, '89 Granstar, ‘93 Rockstar
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  14. #14

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    Why wouldn't you want manufacturers to be exploring new mounting options? I'm all for nostalgia but I like innovation. I like companies that are looking for new ways to do things. I'm all for it. INNOVATE!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumsetsnide View Post
    For both of you. Ever notice the difference in sound and resonance with drums attached/mounted directly to the mounting system and extra hardware on the shells verses those that use isolation mounts? Huge difference. Mounting hardware attached directly to the drum chokes the drum noticeably and reduces resonance and sustain noticeably. Nobody is reinventing the wheel. The wheel is the wheel. They are just putting different tires on the wheel to improve the ride, response, noise, traction, etc.
    To tell you the difference man no I have never been able to do that. My Pearls in the 60 where drum mounted and my Pearls of the 2000's are drum mounted. The only way for me to find out would be to hear another MCX without the mounts or take the ones off mine and plug the hole where the mounts sits. Then put my toms on stands and to me would be too costly to do just to see the difference it would make. So to answer your question no I would not notice the difference besides I am use to it so why change it.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    To tell you the difference man no I have never been able to do that. My Pearls in the 60 where drum mounted and my Pearls of the 2000's are drum mounted. The only way for me to find out would be to hear another MCX without the mounts or take the ones off mine and plug the hole where the mounts sits. Then put my toms on stands and to me would be too costly to do just to see the difference it would make. So to answer your question no I would not notice the difference besides I am use to it so why change it.
    I beleive he may have been referring to isolated Tom mounts (undrilled) rather than mounting a Tom arm off of a bass drum or not.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumsetsnide View Post
    For both of you. Ever notice the difference in sound and resonance with drums attached/mounted directly to the mounting system and extra hardware on the shells verses those that use isolation mounts? Huge difference. Mounting hardware attached directly to the drum chokes the drum noticeably and reduces resonance and sustain noticeably. Nobody is reinventing the wheel. The wheel is the wheel. They are just putting different tires on the wheel to improve the ride, response, noise, traction, etc.
    Well. all I can say in response, is there were killer drum sounds happening as far back as I can can remember as there are now, so I'm not sure isolation mountuing is that big of a deal either way. It doesn't seem as though drummers like a lot of resonance anyways or else they would't go out their ways to dullen the drums with heavy heads and moon gel etc...

    all the best...

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Well. all I can say in response, is there were killer drum sounds happening as far back as I can can remember as there are now, so I'm not sure isolation mountuing is that big of a deal either way. It doesn't seem as though drummers like a lot of resonance anyways or else they would't go out their ways to dullen the drums with heavy heads and moon gel etc...

    all the best...
    I totally agree with you kay-gee that makes more sense. I am used to the old way with the toms mounted on the bass drum. I even played my drums back in the 70 with only batter heads on all the drums. Today it is batter/reso just more tuning, muffling etc. Technical world we live in I guess. Pretty soon we will have to be scientist to play drums.lol

  19. #19

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    Dampening and resonance loss are not the same thing. You can reduce the sustain of a drum, but using a ring or moongel won't make the shell vibrate less - it won't reduce the force of the soundwave created by striking the drumhead with your stick. Putting holes in an object causes that loss of energy, it inhibits the natural tonality of the shell. Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good shell and all that it's meant to be? I'm not gonna pay over a grand for holes, i'm payin for drums.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    Dampening and resonance loss are not the same thing. You can reduce the sustain of a drum, but using a ring or moongel won't make the shell vibrate less - it won't reduce the force of the soundwave created by striking the drumhead with your stick. Putting holes in an object causes that loss of energy, it inhibits the natural tonality of the shell. Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good shell and all that it's meant to be? I'm not gonna pay over a grand for holes, i'm payin for drums.
    I see what you're getting at. Scientifically speaking, you may be correct but to the human ear the energy loss is negliable. I don't follow your hole logic. Say a tom with 6 lugs top and bottom=24 holes in the shell already. With air vent, that's 25 holes. What diff is 2 more holes so a mounting bracket can be fastened to the shell?

    all the best...

  21. #21

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    Two issues with it - size of the holes, and the 'pull'. Unlike the lug holes you're using 2 or 3 points of entry into the shell, to support the entire drum itself. That's a lot of strain to put on a small area, especially if it's a heavier shelltype. Add the factor of reaching inside the shell itself and taking a piece of it away to support it, and it's a disaster. That's why i'm curious if there's going to be new designs of tom suspension systems available anytime soon, the ones I use are nice but only available through buying a specific kit and I can't use them with anything else I use. I would need to get them aftermarket.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

    Forum Rules
    DrumBum
    No metronome?
    The Rudiments

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    To tell you the difference man no I have never been able to do that. My Pearls in the 60 where drum mounted and my Pearls of the 2000's are drum mounted. The only way for me to find out would be to hear another MCX without the mounts or take the ones off mine and plug the hole where the mounts sits. Then put my toms on stands and to me would be too costly to do just to see the difference it would make. So to answer your question no I would not notice the difference besides I am use to it so why change it.
    I'm referring to isolation mounts which is what we are talking about in this thread, weather they are base drum mounted or on a stand. Taking drums off their "conventional" mounts and putting them on a stand is the same idea as having them on their mounts. If you did that experiment you wouldn't notice a difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatDrummer View Post
    I beleive he may have been referring to isolated Tom mounts (undrilled) rather than mounting a Tom arm off of a bass drum or not.
    Exactly!
    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Well. all I can say in response, is there were killer drum sounds happening as far back as I can can remember as there are now, so I'm not sure isolation mountuing is that big of a deal either way. It doesn't seem as though drummers like a lot of resonance anyways or else they would't go out their ways to dullen the drums with heavy heads and moon gel etc...

    all the best...
    Not all drummers like dull or muffled drums, not at all. If tuned properly you can get a drum to sing, resonate and have a beautiful tone with controlled overtones. I don't use moon gel often (in fact I only just recently started experimenting with it) and I know of many other drummers who don't use it at all. Everyone has a preferred sound that they like. It's personal. Plus you can have moon gel or other means of muffling or dampening a head without taking away from the vibration or resonance of the shell. They are two very different concepts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    Dampening and resonance loss are not the same thing. You can reduce the sustain of a drum, but using a ring or moongel won't make the shell vibrate less - it won't reduce the force of the soundwave created by striking the drumhead with your stick. Putting holes in an object causes that loss of energy, it inhibits the natural tonality of the shell. Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good shell and all that it's meant to be? I'm not gonna pay over a grand for holes, i'm payin for drums.
    That's exactly correct.
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  23. #23

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    I think you could run a narrow pin or rod/axle thru the center, side-to-side, with grommets and antivibration washers at the two points on the shell where the rod exits.
    Thread the rod ends and attach a yoke with clamping hardware to tighten the drum to the yoke and clamping for yoke to arms or rack bars. Mounted, the drums would look like searchlights with swiveling capabilities. I wouldn't think the pass-thru rod would make a diff. to the sound, but you need it to actually support the shell equally without putting stress on the shell (with mounting points to one side, etc. like we have today.) Maybe you don't even need the rod thru the center but just two mount-swivel support points 180 deg. apart on the shell.
    Uh-oh, I didn't patent this...better get back to the drawings!
    Last edited by slinglander; 08-02-2012 at 08:38 AM. Reason: added illus
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  24. #24

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    About 5 or 6 years ago a friend of mine, who was new to drumming, bought an entry level kit. He wanted me to come over and explain to him and show him how to tune. The toms were bass drum mounted and had a mounting rod roughly an inch to an inch and a quarter in diameter going directly into the tom.

    I took the toms off the mounts, changed the heads and began to fine tune them. During the tuning process I would pick the drum up and hit the heads with a stick. They sounded pretty good for a beginners kit and they had nice resonance and sustain.

    I then put the toms back onto the kit and hit the heads and WOW!! a completely different sound. They were choked and had little resonance and sustain with some undesirable overtones. I did the best I could with tuning them on the mounts but before I did that I took them off just to prove to my buddy that just having that rod in the shell and having them mounted directly via the hardware attached to the shell, there would be a significant and noticeable difference in the sound.

    So getting back to the original topic, isolation mounts do have a purpose and they do work and it's a personal choice weather or not you want to use them and there is a noticeable difference by ear and certainly with mics in the studio.

    As for the major manufacturers making a universal iso mount, or a hardware manufacturer making one that fits all drums...well the major manufacturers have their own designs and reasons for the design. I don't see them going to a universal system. It's what makes their drums unique and keeps you buying their product. There are some universal mounts sold aftermarket but then again why wouldn't you just buy your maker's iso kit. In other words if you have a TAMA kit with traditional mounts and want iso nounts why would you buy DW or Pearl or Gretsch iso mounts unless you like the design. That leads to the other issue of plugging the holes or leaving them open. Either way there, you have partially compromised the purpose of the iso mounts.

    I know companies are always looking for ways to be innovative and their research and development departments are always working to introduce new ideas. I don't have any solid answer or proof that there will be new ways to mount a tom. I can't think of too many ways to change what's already out there. There are iso mounts, traditional mounting and using snare stands to mount toms. But I do agree with marko. I'm all for innovation and thinking outside the box.
    TAMA- '2018 Star Walnut, ‘99 Starclassic Performer, '89 Granstar, ‘93 Rockstar
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  25. #25

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    Default Re: In regards to tom mounting..

    Quote Originally Posted by drumsetsnide View Post
    About 5 or 6 years ago a friend of mine, who was new to drumming, bought an entry level kit. He wanted me to come over and explain to him and show him how to tune. The toms were bass drum mounted and had a mounting rod roughly an inch to an inch and a quarter in diameter going directly into the tom.

    I took the toms off the mounts, changed the heads and began to fine tune them. During the tuning process I would pick the drum up and hit the heads with a stick. They sounded pretty good for a beginners kit and they had nice resonance and sustain.

    I then put the toms back onto the kit and hit the heads and WOW!! a completely different sound. They were choked and had little resonance and sustain with some undesirable overtones. I did the best I could with tuning them on the mounts but before I did that I took them off just to prove to my buddy that just having that rod in the shell and having them mounted directly via the hardware attached to the shell, there would be a significant and noticeable difference in the sound.

    So getting back to the original topic, isolation mounts do have a purpose and they do work and it's a personal choice weather or not you want to use them and there is a noticeable difference by ear and certainly with mics in the studio.

    As for the major manufacturers making a universal iso mount, or a hardware manufacturer making one that fits all drums...well the major manufacturers have their own designs and reasons for the design. I don't see them going to a universal system. It's what makes their drums unique and keeps you buying their product. There are some universal mounts sold aftermarket but then again why wouldn't you just buy your maker's iso kit. In other words if you have a TAMA kit with traditional mounts and want iso nounts why would you buy DW or Pearl or Gretsch iso mounts unless you like the design. That leads to the other issue of plugging the holes or leaving them open. Either way there, you have partially compromised the purpose of the iso mounts.

    I know companies are always looking for ways to be innovative and their research and development departments are always working to introduce new ideas. I don't have any solid answer or proof that there will be new ways to mount a tom. I can't think of too many ways to change what's already out there. There are iso mounts, traditional mounting and using snare stands to mount toms. But I do agree with marko. I'm all for innovation and thinking outside the box.
    BOOM. Well said my brother.

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