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Thread: Jazz ride pattern question

  1. #1

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    I've been listening to quite a bit of Jazz lately. I have a very hard time differentiating between a dotted 8th note pattern on the ride (1--a2--a3--a4--a) and a broken 8th note triplet pattern (1-let2-let3-let4-let).

    The only way I can usually figure it out is to listen closely to the snare drum comping and figure out if the drummer is playing straight 16ths or 8th note triplets. If the tempo is fast and the snare drum comping is very broken then I can't even make it out that way.

    I'm just curious if it's tricky for everyone or if I haven't done a good enough job internalizing that triplet feel to be able to immediately differentiate between the two patterns.
    Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they don't get it wrong.

  2. #2

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    Jazz is a "feel" type of music. If it feels right, it probably is right.

  3. #3

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    I'm far from a reliable source, but I thought all jazz (atleast mainstream) was the triplet feel, I don't remember hearing anything using that 16th note pattern.

  4. #4

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    1 a2 3 a4 on the hh, very soft bass on the 1/4s, snare on the 1 & 2 alternating on the 4 everyother measure. Thats the way I play it, good luck

  5. #5

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    A lot of jazz drummers weave in and out of triplets and dotted eighth/sixteenth. Sometimes it to match the phrasing of the soloist but often it's just the style of that particular drummer. It's quite fun to do actually, especially to walk that line right down the middle where it almost feels like swing but then it almost feels straight. This can also be done with certain blues and rock tunes where you'll walk that fine line between straight eighths and a shuffle.

  6. #6

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    Having played in numerous jam sessions, mainly in NYC, where in the 60's, 70's, and into the 80's, you could always find after hours sessions.

    Some guys wanted you to hit every break and some wanted you to just play straight time with very little of anything else.

    It's part of what makes jazz a very individual style of music. I've played songs that I didn't recognize until we were a 1/4 of the way in.

    Even the simplest of songs can turn complex on a dime depending on how the soloist sees it.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    A lot of jazz drummers weave in and out of triplets and dotted eighth/sixteenth. Sometimes it to match the phrasing of the soloist but often it's just the style of that particular drummer. It's quite fun to do actually, especially to walk that line right down the middle where it almost feels like swing but then it almost feels straight. This can also be done with certain blues and rock tunes where you'll walk that fine line between straight eighths and a shuffle.
    That's something I also teach. It does take a little while for any lesser experienced player to get their ears around, so I usually sift through a variety of recordings to give various examples whilst we look together at exercises. Once a student starts to comprehend a particular pattern, then I take that exercise and I play it real slow, counting it aloud and together with the student, both of us playing together on two ride cymbals or hi-hats. Quite often, it will boil down to how hard and often a student is willing to practice, but once they've done at least some work on their swing time and the variety of patterns I have written out for them, then they start to see how each pattern may or may not work in a particular song or style within jazz. And also they start to see that there is really no one ride cymbal pattern that fits all, especially once you play the ride together with tthe tune you're hearing it in, due to the fact that in a number of situations....not all, mind you...that you're sort of improvising within that ride or hi-hat pattern (funny enough, that is sort of the same situation with reggae hi-hat patterns as well), so whenever I give any student a chart that has a swing pattern, I sometimes have to let them know that we don't have to necessarily stick to every hi-hat or ride cymbal stroke notated....that you can put your own slant onto it, and when you're say playing along with some music, you will hear the drummer on that recording departing a bit from the notated cymbal pattern anyway.
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  8. #8

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    There is a difference between dotted sixteenths and the broken triplet eighth notes? I thought you just swing. Sometimes it's a more relaxed feel, and sometimes it's a more rigid feel.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_d View Post
    If the tempo is fast and the snare drum comping is very broken then I can't even make it out that way.
    when the tempo is really up , the notes will naturally even out , turn into straight 8th notes ; maintaining triplets at a fast tempo is impossible .

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    A lot of jazz drummers weave in and out of triplets and dotted eighth/sixteenth. Sometimes it to match the phrasing of the soloist but often it's just the style of that particular drummer. It's quite fun to do actually, especially to walk that line right down the middle where it almost feels like swing but then it almost feels straight. This can also be done with certain blues and rock tunes where you'll walk that fine line between straight eighths and a shuffle.
    Actually that's how I play a lot of rock, especially Hendrix stuff. I love going in and out of the swing feel...drives bass players into other patterns and pushes the original rock music into more fusion. Too much "rock swing" and it ends up funk.
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  11. #11

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    chick ba-ding and spang-a-lang
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  12. #12

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    I like to think of it as: ting ta-ting, ting ta-ting
    SONOR 6 pc Special Edition 3007's red maple, old Pearl Brass 14x6 FF snare, Yamaha Tour Custom maple 8 pc., Tama 4 pc., honey amber B/B, Ludwig Supralite chrome 14x6.5 steel snare, Paiste, Saluda & Zildjian
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  13. #13

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    Paul Wertico says many people emphasize it wrong. He teaches his students to play the pattern while saying, "hey, SWING the band, SWING the band, SWING the band, SWING the band..."
    Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they don't get it wrong.

  14. #14

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    for what it's worth , i like to accent the ride as i hear it : accent the quarter notes when it seems appropriate , likewise the ands , ditto on two and four.
    Last edited by stanhandler; 10-02-2012 at 03:09 AM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanhandler View Post
    for what it's worth , i like to accent the ride as i hear it : accent the quarter notes when it's seems appropriate , likewise the ands , ditto on two and four.
    word
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  16. #16

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    Art Blakey is a good example of someone who used more of a dotted 8th 16th ride pattern and it worked for him. As mentioned, it all straightens out when you get past a certain tempo threshold.

    The two most common accent patterns are are 2& 4 (i.e. Jeff Hamilton) or no accent at all (i.e. Tony Williams).

    This is an interesting summary of some of the greats http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YexaQsaCrU

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    I like to think of it as: ting ta-ting, ting ta-ting
    right!

    its a groove, a feel.

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