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Thread: not falling forward

  1. #1

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    i must say, this is by far the best forum I have ever read! You guys have a knack for making everyone feel like they belong to special group of people with a common interest. I have a question and have not been able to find a solution yet!
    When I try to practice heel up on both the bass and the hats, I tend to fall forward! I have asked around a little bit and tried to google it and can not find a solution. I feel like I am the only one that has this problem LOL

  2. #2

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    lower your stool slightly

  3. #3

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    clydette, there are a number of possible issues, so let me start the ball rolling by suggesting a couple: 1) are your toms too far away? By that I mean are you having to reach a full arms length to reach them? If so, you could be pulling yourself off balance. 2) where do you sit on the throne? You should sit so that you're not all the way back, nor too far forward. You want to feel a nice balance point where you are not putting weigh on your feet to balance. The balance should come from sitting on the right place on the throne. Then you will be able to lift your leg without losing your balance.

    Anyone else?
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  4. #4

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    I have lowered my throne and it did not seem to help. I am just trying to have my heels up on the bd and the hats, just playing hats and snare. I keep thinking I am not built to do such a thing but I have seen every body shape going pull this off! If i bounce between bass and hats, I am OK it is keeping both heels up that is the problem! Thanks for the help!!!

  5. #5

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    You are relying to much on using your feet to sit down.

    You need your lower back to be stronger to make it so that when both feet happen to be up you can balance yourself.

    and when you don't need your feet up then don't.

    -Steven

  6. #6

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    clydette, from what you described, this is just a matter of understanding that when your heels come off the ground, there should be a very slight lean backward to counter balance. Your feet/legs should be free to move, if you are properly balancing on the throne. If the height of the seat is not the issue, then are you sitting too far back? The key is to sit where you can feel balanced on your backside, with your thighs parallel to the ground, and with very little pressure on your toes (heel up position).

    Aside from this starting point, since you have already checked your throne height, maybe you could tell us what else you have tried to do to fix the balance issue.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  7. #7

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    I have tried sitting back, forward,up,down,closer, further back, I am constantly repositionining my hat hat. I have tried straighter back and more of a slunched over position. Maybe this problem is unique to just me! LOL
    I shoe horses for a living so maybe I have developed muscles that counter act having both heals up. A long shot but I dont get why this is so hard for me?
    Maybe time to spend the money for a better coach!

  8. #8

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    Could be you are to far away from the kick? The farther away your feet are from you the heavier your feet are.

    I also found that as I played I started slumping forward and so it made it harder to do what Pastor Bob was sayin and that's lean back slightly when both heels are up.
    Attitude is everything!

  9. #9

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    clydette, if you could have someone take a picture/video of you (front and side) as you attempt to do what you are having trouble doing, maybe we could dive more definitive advice. Right now, we're groping in the dark to give the usual advice. Sounds like you need "clydette specific" advice.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  10. #10

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    You could always play "heels down".

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    You could always play "heels down".
    Leave it to you to go with a practical solution Rick! Well done!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    Leave it to you to go with a practical solution Rick! Well done!

    I tried to play heels up once or twice for the hell of it with the double bass pedal. I felt like I was going to fall over backwards.

    I assume the OP is playing double bass. Unless you are trying for the all out speed record, I think you can get pretty fast playing heels down.

  13. #13

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    My stool is fairly low so that my upper leg area is parallel to the floor. So at first, I sit with both ankles directly beneath the knees, so that from ankle to hip you have a 90 degree angle. I then move the ankles ever so slightly forward until you can see them when looking directly over the knee. This allows me to play not so much fully heels up but more like half way between heels up and heels down, whether both feet play a double pedal, or the right kick pedal and left foot on the hi-hat, etc. Just by relaxing the ankles, heels down playing becomes second nature, (sometimes necessary for playing quieter styles), I can also quickly go a little heel up without contracting the calf muscles and Achilles tendons too much (as opposed to playing fully heels up), and also, the left foot on the hi-hat can then do the "heel-toe" method of opening and closing the hi-hat (right foot can do that too if I place a remote cable hi-hat to the right of the double pedal and play foot pattern exercises with two hi-hats).

    What happens with all these kind of motions and positions is that you will mostly have either the heel or the ball of the toes of either the left foot or both feet "grounded" on a pedal plate, which in turn will add to the weight support of your body being done by your lower back, pretty much like a supporting leg of a tripod in a sense. This in turn also takes a bit of stress off your lower back, and you should in a sense feel a bit of a dancey sort of movement with your feet.

    Check this guy out, Billy Ashbaugh. I thought this guy was at first just some simple pop drummer ('NSync and all that stuff) who had groove but didn't have much chops. Right? Wrong!!! Turned out not only has he been playing drums since he was 5 (and started gigging professionally in his late teens), this guy had been a great instructor in his mid 20's, way before he started doing teen-pop stuff. And no less than drummer/producer/inventor Bob Gatzen years later got him to do work on Gatzen's "Inspiring Drummers" series of videos, so you'd know Billy is one of those guys that knows his instrument. I gained quite a bit of respect for him knowing that, even more so once I started checking out his videos.

    Check out how his feet work around the 2:50 mark.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by clydette View Post
    i must say, this is by far the best forum I have ever read! You guys have a knack for making everyone feel like they belong to special group of people with a common interest. I have a question and have not been able to find a solution yet!
    When I try to practice heel up on both the bass and the hats, I tend to fall forward! I have asked around a little bit and tried to google it and can not find a solution. I feel like I am the only one that has this problem LOL
    You're not the only one. I do the same thing when I try to do heel up with both feet. I finally gave in and do heel down for the most part.

    I feel like humpty dumpty, but if I fall down, there won;t be anyone to put me back together again...hehehe..

    And, I'm a little front heavy since I quit smoking 21 years ago!
    Take care and seeya!

    Jim

  15. #15

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    Install a seat belt.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SparrowBeat View Post
    Install a seat belt.
    Duh!

  17. #17

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    I always think of this technique of "heels up" as running in place on your toes, balanced on the throne. Try the running in place on the throne to find your balance, first with your arms to your sides and slowly raise them to be parallel to the floor. You will find that arm motions always change your balance too. Do this a couple times then go to your kit and try it. Hopefully you'll discover your balance posture this way.
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  18. #18

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    I have never had a problem with falling forward. Very weird.

    The only two constants I have are DW and Zildjian.

  19. #19

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    I don't recommend heels down. While it's used with maybe 10% of the drummers out there, it's not the better way to play in my opinion. You're taking away the use of half your leg and only using your ankles.

    Put your hands on a table and tap them up and down doing fast single strokes. Feel how restrained you are? Now lift your arms up off the table just a bit and do the same exercise. You will instantly feel how it frees you up, thus creating a natural flow of movement using your whole limb rather than just your wrists.

    I know some of you will disagree and I'm not in the mood to debate it but there's a reason why the majority of drummers play heel up.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by clydette View Post
    When I try to practice heel up on both the bass and the hats, I tend to fall forward!
    Use one leg to support you while the other one is working and visa versa. Do this awhile just to get used to playing heel up and then gradually start lifting both of them for certain exercises. It will take some time to feel your center of balance. Don't worry if you feel like you're falling forward in the beginning. It's very common, but you'll eventually get it.

  21. #21

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    Thank You for all of your imput! I am working on it and think it is getting a little better. I am learning quick that the key to all this is practice practice practice!!

  22. #22

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    I had a same problem when I started heel up on double bass, after a while I eventually built up the balance. I actually don't usually play heel up double bass anyways....

  23. #23

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    This thread just made me realize I play my kick drums heel up and my hi-hat heel down. Hmm.

    On the balance thing, a back rest on your throne might help. I personally don't like them, hence I don't use mine, but it will help give you support.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by NPYYZ View Post
    This thread just made me realize I play my kick drums heel up and my hi-hat heel down. Hmm.

    On the balance thing, a back rest on your throne might help. I personally don't like them, hence I don't use mine, but it will help give you support.
    Ya me too. But I have been messin with opening my hats just a little at times and heel down makes it easier to control. Aside from the "right for me" point, is it more effective to go heel up on the hats?
    Attitude is everything!

  25. #25

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    I've heard of this problem before. I've always played double and always played heel up. I also sit up as high as my throne will go. I can lean way forward and way back while playing and never feel like I'm gonna fall.

    It's just a matter of practice and getting comfortable. Keep at it.

    You can see here how high up I sit.


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