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Thread: Martial Artists

  1. #1
    Shazane Guest

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    Who is a fellow practicer of the martial arts? I don't want to argue about who's style is better like we ended up doing on the Modern Music thread of all places (Rule 25!)

    I'm second black in Taekwondo, and also know a bit of Aikido and Xiaolin and some Korean weapon styles recovered from the Muye Dobo Tongji, and a bit of Krav Maga, though I couldnt afford to keep taking the class, and also some Escrima. My teacher knows all of these styles, he learned Taekwondo under the great Niel "Super" Singleton, 7 time world champion heavy weight kickboxer, just so you dont start bashing Taekwondo like alot of martial artists like to do for some reason. He learned Xiaolin from Master (grand master?) Sin The, so that's all my lineage.

    My philosophy is that martial artists shoudltn restric themselves to one style and shouldnt stay in the boundaries of their styles, because the martial arts are constantly evolving, improving, and adapting to the time they are being practiced in. Because of this my favorite martial artists are Bruce Lee and Morihei Ueshiba.

    My weak point is definitely submissive grappling, my style is evasive, about using their force against them and exploiting any opening, then delivering alot of force back.

  2. #2

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    According to Fight Sciences Taekwondo has the most powerful kicking technique, at least not counting Mui Tai when they knee the sternum - but that's not really a kick in my book, it's a knee.

    Glad to hear you do more than one style because i agree with you - the best way is to adapt with multiple artforms.

    Just out of curiosity - why do you martial arts - discipline? fitness? to kickk ***?
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  3. #3

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    Oh, just want to point out that I think all martial arts forms have their good points and bad points. I have preferences based on differnet things, but I don't think it is right to say that one form is definitively better than another - I was just being a stirrer when I made the previous comment about Kempo kicking *** over Aikido.

    I also have allot of respect for anyone who has the discipline to learn them - I just don't have time unfortunately to dedicate to things like that, I barely find time for drumming nowadays let along anyhting else.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  4. #4

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    Hey Shazane - it's Aikido where they teach with three elements principle isn't it? Solid, Liqiud and Gas to represent three stages of skill/technique?
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  5. #5

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    i have brown belts in americanized karate and judo. i hold no ranking but trained for about 8 years with an aikido/ju juitsu baddass who was also a ncaa national champion freestyle and greco roman wrestler. between this and my drummers hand speed i can hold my own. i spent 2 years bouncing in the roughest bar i know of anywhere and never got beat or hurt, so i feel i have learned alot and it was worth it.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkymcstain View Post
    i have brown belts in americanized karate and judo. i hold no ranking but trained for about 8 years with an aikido/ju juitsu baddass who was also a ncaa national champion freestyle and greco roman wrestler. between this and my drummers hand speed i can hold my own. i spent 2 years bouncing in the roughest bar i know of anywhere and never got beat or hurt, so i feel i have learned alot and it was worth it.
    Like Roadhouse?
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  7. #7

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    I'm a ninja

  8. #8

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    That would be ninjette

  9. #9

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    Seiously, again, I'm not a big fan of "my style can wip your style". Martial arts is very personal. If a world class athlete, like a pro football player, applies himself to a bastardized sport oriented style, he's going to be a very difficult oppenent to face for the average joe, no matter what his style or level of training. Size, speed, ballance, and toughness are what they are, no matter what you know.

    My view of stlyes/schools/teachers/students: most of them suck. There aren't that many qualified instructors running hard hitting schools, especially here in the states. Schools are run like businesses, and students are often given what they want, not what they need, and they're often given it by instructors who's experience level is questionable.

    While it's true that fighting arts are constantly evolving, I believe that the overal level of quality in martial arts is devolving, by and large. Many of the fundamentals of training that were common in the 60's (ex. body conditioning, ie. toughening of hands, fingers, knuckles, shins, feet, toes, etc) has gone by the wayside because it's just too much work for the average person and it doesn't sell.

    As far as TKD being looked down apon, there are some TKDers out there who have true self defence skills, but sadly, TDK has led the way in the sport karate movement. This has led to thousands of TKD schools and practitioners who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack. As far as TKD having the most powerful kicks, keep in mind that the higher one kicks, the less power that kick has. I've never kicked anyone in the head in a real world sitiation (with my foot, anyway), but I have gone shin to shin with some poor slob and it was a real show stopper. Not only that, there was no danger of killing him.

    I do have to say, that I'm quite a fan of Ed Parker's Kenpo. Like many styles, the hard hitting toughness and conditioning that was a part of nearly all real martial arts has gone by the wayside, but it's still a very complete style, and there are some real romp'n stomp'n descendants of Mr. Parker.

    I'm also in awe of the overal toughness of todays cage fighters, but personally, I would never choose to go to the mat in a public place where staying mobile on ones feet is critical to the whole idea of self defence. Also, many of these guys rely on their toughness and strength in a way that just doesn't work for the average joe or josephine. Knowing how to choke someone out, or break a joint is great, but I've found that snatching someone up by the eye sockets is genereally quicker, easyer, and a great way to make most would-be tough guys realise they'd rather brawl with someone else.
    Last edited by Roaddebris; 08-20-2007 at 09:19 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post
    Like Roadhouse?
    pretty much, it is called the outhouse...
    Last edited by drummer; 08-20-2007 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    That would be ninjette

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    ,
    I do have to say, that I'm quite a fan of Ed Parker's Kenpo. Like many styles, the hard hitting toughness and conditioning that was a part of nearly all real martial arts has gone by the wayside, but it's still a very complete style, and there are some real romp'n stomp'n descendants of Mr. Parker.
    the americanized karate/judo hybrid i mentioned is pretty much taken from parkers system. the boys club where i studied growing up would not use the kenpo name, but my instructor was a kenpo black belt and knew the man himself.

    i know what you mean about martial arts not being what they used to be, but wouldnt really say it has devoled. many many schools still teach tradition and disciplin. the problem is... with the popularity of mma, nobody wants to learn that anymore. they want to learn things that will beat traditional martial arts, wrestlers, boxers ect. the first mma events would draw the best of the best of traditional martial artist. they went down quickly to anybody that knew how to stop thier traditional attacks and put them on thier backs or bellies.
    my kids have all taken some karate, all got bored and none really took it serious wich is too bad, i think the discipline and tradition are a good base for self defense and just life in general. but for true self defense i teach them myself.
    as far as styles go, i think anyone well rounded in submission and a little thai boxing can defeat your "average" karate, kung fu, tkd, ninjuitsu...ect black belt.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by drum_chick View Post
    I'm a ninja
    LOL

  14. #14

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    The best players will learn the value of offense first and foremost. It can be found in wisdom. Know and understand wisdom and you'll avoid most defensive situations.

    If that doesn't work... rip their eyeballs out like Roaddebris suggested!

  15. #15

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    I spent a year taking karate lessons, and even got the thrill of breaking boards that were being held chest high by my instructor, with a side kick. I did that after the class ended because I was taking the classes with my brother and my newphews, and they were working on breaking boards for a demonstration. My brother and his sons were blue belts at the time. I was a lowly white belt. I got all the way up to a yellow belt (one up from white) when I had to quit because I was working on a master's degree at the seminary. Oh well. I had fun!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  16. #16

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    I did Wadoryu Karate up to Blue Belt, then my teacher gave up on us and forced us to do stuff we'd already done, as he let more and more people into the club. It ended up a chore so I quit.
    Today, on Ethel The Frog...

  17. #17

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    I've found that snatching someone up by the eye sockets is genereally quicker, easyer, and a great way to make most would-be tough guys realise they'd rather brawl with someone else
    And that what I love about Kempo - or apparenlty Ken Po - whichever way you wanna spell(say) it, my friend who does study it has shown me some truly gruesome stuff, especially with their knife training. It seems to be less about disabling an opponent as it is about tearing them a new one so they never even contemplate fighting another living soul (assuming the movement allows them to live). At least that is the way my mate is being taught. He hasn't fully learnt some of those movements yet (generally reserved for the higher belts and to do weapons training for military apparently) but he's watched it and learnt enough to give me an idea of how the movements run down.

    I think the worst thing for martial arts on a whole is competition. No matter which style, competition defangs the whole process, and since the point of any martial arts is to learn to use the body as a weapon, if you blunt your sword, what good is it?

    Oh yeah - why doesn't anyone Ask A NinjA!?!?!



    heheheheh.....
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  18. #18
    Shazane Guest

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    Wow, 14 replies overnight

    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post
    According to Fight Sciences Taekwondo has the most powerful kicking technique, at least not counting Mui Tai when they knee the sternum - but that's not really a kick in my book, it's a knee.

    Glad to hear you do more than one style because i agree with you - the best way is to adapt with multiple artforms.

    Just out of curiosity - why do you martial arts - discipline? fitness? to kickk ***?
    Why do I do it? It's just an essential part of my life, it gives me inner peace and outer strength. Also, it's alot like music to me, it's an art form that uses your body, I always find myself noticing similarities between my katas and my drum parts... maybe I even subconsciously wrote them that way...

    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post
    Oh, just want to point out that I think all martial arts forms have their good points and bad points. I have preferences based on differnet things, but I don't think it is right to say that one form is definitively better than another - I was just being a stirrer when I made the previous comment about Kempo kicking *** over Aikido.

    I also have allot of respect for anyone who has the discipline to learn them - I just don't have time unfortunately to dedicate to things like that, I barely find time for drumming nowadays let along anyhting else.
    I agree with that, all forms have strengths and weaknesses, and it depends on the situation they are used in and your level of mastery, all that accounted for I believe every style adds up to being equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post
    Hey Shazane - it's Aikido where they teach with three elements principle isn't it? Solid, Liqiud and Gas to represent three stages of skill/technique?
    I think so, "1 spirit, 8 powers, 3 elements, 4 origins", that idea sort of came from Daito Ryu. I don't know much about it never having an actual Aikido teacher, all of my training on that level came from Xiaolin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    That would be ninjette
    That would be a Kunoichi, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    Seiously, again, I'm not a big fan of "my style can wip your style". Martial arts is very personal. If a world class athlete, like a pro football player, applies himself to a bastardized sport oriented style, he's going to be a very difficult oppenent to face for the average joe, no matter what his style or level of training. Size, speed, ballance, and toughness are what they are, no matter what you know.

    My view of stlyes/schools/teachers/students: most of them suck. There aren't that many qualified instructors running hard hitting schools, especially here in the states. Schools are run like businesses, and students are often given what they want, not what they need, and they're often given it by instructors who's experience level is questionable.

    While it's true that fighting arts are constantly evolving, I believe that the overal level of quality in martial arts is devolving, by and large. Many of the fundamentals of training that were common in the 60's (ex. body conditioning, ie. toughening of hands, fingers, knuckles, shins, feet, toes, etc) has gone by the wayside because it's just too much work for the average person and it doesn't sell.

    As far as TKD being looked down apon, there are some TKDers out there who have true self defence skills, but sadly, TDK has led the way in the sport karate movement. This has led to thousands of TKD schools and practitioners who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack. As far as TKD having the most powerful kicks, keep in mind that the higher one kicks, the less power that kick has. I've never kicked anyone in the head in a real world sitiation (with my foot, anyway), but I have gone shin to shin with some poor slob and it was a real show stopper. Not only that, there was no danger of killing him.

    I do have to say, that I'm quite a fan of Ed Parker's Kenpo. Like many styles, the hard hitting toughness and conditioning that was a part of nearly all real martial arts has gone by the wayside, but it's still a very complete style, and there are some real romp'n stomp'n descendants of Mr. Parker.

    I'm also in awe of the overal toughness of todays cage fighters, but personally, I would never choose to go to the mat in a public place where staying mobile on ones feet is critical to the whole idea of self defence. Also, many of these guys rely on their toughness and strength in a way that just doesn't work for the average joe or josephine. Knowing how to choke someone out, or break a joint is great, but I've found that snatching someone up by the eye sockets is genereally quicker, easyer, and a great way to make most would-be tough guys realise they'd rather brawl with someone else.
    Yeah that is a problem, these big schools usually have terrible instruction and overcharge and pretty much just hand out belts every so often. But any underground school with a reasonable price usually has quality instruction, even in the US. I know in my class I wouldn't have gotten where I am with money. It also depends greatly no the instructor themself, Sin The is a fantastic instructor but his brother is pretty bad in my opinion, I've met someone from his class and we compared our San Yi. The kind of places you're talking about still exist, you just have to know where to look. So I don't think it's devolving at all, there are great martial artists alive today after all. Take Master Ken Young of the former ATF (which was abolished shortly after Master Singleton had a stroke), not many people in the whole world would be a match for this guy, even Master Singleton would have had a hard time.

    Now, I don't know why I would ever kick someone to the head, a Taekwondo kick can be aimed anywhere, I don't focus on the head at all, because in the real world people focus so much on guarding their head they leave everything else open, because untrained fighters generally do nothing but headshots. I'd say a side kick to the stomach can finish a fight well enough. Plus they'd have an easier time guarding their head anyway, so you'd want something faster like a punch for a headshot. The throat's always a nice target too.

    I know how to rip someone's eyes out well enough, but I'd only do something like that as a last resort, I hope to be good enough with joint locks to subdue an opponent without seriously injuring them, a joint lock CAN snap bones with little effort, but that isn't necessary because the pain of it is enough to bring anyone down without going that far. Same thing O tell people who ask what the point of martial arts is when you could just carry a gun to defend yourself... subtlety, subtlety.

  19. #19
    Shazane Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post

    I think the worst thing for martial arts on a whole is competition. No matter which style, competition defangs the whole process, and since the point of any martial arts is to learn to use the body as a weapon, if you blunt your sword, what good is it?

    Oh yeah - why doesn't anyone Ask A NinjA!?!?!

    heheheheh.....
    Competitions are alot of fun, it's just a game. I don't think it harms the martial arts since real martial arts talent cannot be proven in a fight, it's inside, it's what you can make your body do to itself, not another person.

  20. #20
    Shazane Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethel_The_Frog View Post
    I did Wadoryu Karate up to Blue Belt, then my teacher gave up on us and forced us to do stuff we'd already done, as he let more and more people into the club. It ended up a chore so I quit.
    Practicing things you've already done is a vast majority of any real martial arts training, the basics are the most important things, just like in drumming. You don't just stop using a rudiment because you've done it before...

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazane View Post
    Competitions are alot of fun, it's just a game. I don't think it harms the martial arts since real martial arts talent cannot be proven in a fight, it's inside, it's what you can make your body do to itself, not another person.
    I can see the fun factor - your being allowed to beat into someone - how could that not eb fun (unless they are better in which case they beating you up - not so much fun).

    I guess what I mean is that if the focus of the teacher/student is competition, then the artform, whatever it may be, is not as effective in a real world situation as a form of self defence. I went to school with two guys - one did Karate (not sure what style) and another did kickboxing. The guy who did kick boxing had body conditioning as aprt of his eveyrday routine - pushups, laps, and shin striking, the Karate student did nothing like that, no body conditioning, full pads for training and no contact sparring - now tell me which would be more effective in a real world fight? The Karate guy was good, well controlled and quick, was a black belt and almost qualified for the Olympics in 2000 - but in a fight he would not have been able to hold up well - IMO. That's what i mean when I say competition is bad for martial arts.

    Wushu looks great though, I gotta say it. I don't think it has been brought up yet, but I thought I would. How efeective it may be would probably depend on the person, but to watch it's just brilliant.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  22. #22

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    Tournaments are fun, but when a school or a martial artist makes it the focus of their training, they're missing out (IMO). Tournament fighting is not fighting at all. It's a game of tag with a lot of rules about what you can and can not do. Sparring is an important part of training, however. It's a great way to practice timing, distancing, and reading an opponent at full speed.

    As far as body conditioning and karate, the dojo I was a part of was way into it and only the kids wore pads. The only pads I wore were light weight cotton knuckle pads.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    ... Martial arts is very personal. If a world class athlete, like a pro football player, applies himself to a bastardized sport oriented style, he's going to be a very difficult oppenent to face for the average joe, no matter what his style or level of training. Size, speed, ballance, and toughness are what they are, no matter what you know. ...

    ...Many of the fundamentals of training that were common in the 60's (ex. body conditioning, ie. toughening of hands, fingers, knuckles, shins, feet, toes, etc) has gone by the wayside because it's just too much work for the average person and it doesn't sell.

    As far as TKD being looked down apon, there are some TKDers out there who have true self defence skills, but sadly, TDK has led the way in the sport karate movement. This has led to thousands of TKD schools and practitioners who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack. As far as TKD having the most powerful kicks, keep in mind that the higher one kicks, the less power that kick has. I've never kicked anyone in the head in a real world sitiation (with my foot, anyway), but I have gone shin to shin with some poor slob and it was a real show stopper. Not only that, there was no danger of killing him....
    The younger of my two daughters (20 one week from today, BTW) has earned a second-degree black belt in Songahm Tae Kwon Do through ATA. While she has not trained actively in the past six months because she is working and studying to be a veterinary trainee, I disagree with your opinion that most TKD teachers and students "couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack." Her teacher for most of her nearly six years of training is himself a sixth-degree black belt, and instilled in her not only self-defense skills, but also discipline and self-confidence that she had not fully developed prior to her starting in TKD.

    This is not to say she picks fights; even her instructor emphasizes to all his students not to deliberately put oneself into dangerous situations. I suspect, however, if she needs to defend herself, she'd be better-prepared in most situations than most young women of her size and age (4' 11" and barely 120 pounds soaking wet, much less dry).
    keep the beat goin' ... Don't keep it to yourself!

    Charlie

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  24. #24

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    I don't know if it's most, but sadly it is many. I salute your daughter and her hard work, however.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazane View Post
    Practicing things you've already done is a vast majority of any real martial arts training, the basics are the most important things, just like in drumming. You don't just stop using a rudiment because you've done it before...
    Yeah, I understood that. But it wasn't fun when you're wanting to progress and he's making you practice snap punches and reverses that I learned in the first week of being there.
    Today, on Ethel The Frog...

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