How long did it take you to tune drums well?

[RhythmKilla]

Hey y'all.

First of all, don't tell me to get a drum dial or a tunebot. I want to learn by ear.


However, I am struggling big time with tuning, hence the post. I MUST suck at pitch recognition. After tuning/detuning/tuning/etc. tons of times, I finally realized a couple things about my current situation that could be messing things up for me:

1. Some of the hoops on my toms are warped, because the hoop wont spin on the head (the head spins on the bearing edge, it's the hoop that's the issue).

2. These heads are probably a little messed up from poor tuning, and retuning a ton of time. My rehearsal space is a tiny metal box of a storage unit in an unheated storage facility in SF, so they probably have some alterations due to temperature.

3. I have a Pearl Vision VX that came with TERRIBLE tom mount hardware. I forget the name of it, it might be I.S.S. or something like that. But it holds the toms in place by clamping down on the top hoop. Helloooooo warping and detuning due to tension changes.

So recently, I got so fed up, that I cheated a little. I went home, fired up my DAW, and started generating pitches and tuning to them. Because the heads and a couple rims on the toms are messed up, I can get in the ballpark but pitch perfect is probably impossible at this point. I'm going to keep trying, but man has it been a pain.

I don't really need anyone to tell me HOW to tune a tom, necessarily. I've seen John Good, Bob Gatzen, and various other famous tuning videos. I know how they do it, I think I just suck at pitch recognition and I need some new parts. But my REAL QUESTION is this.... How long did it take you to get good at tuning? Also, I'm trying to listen for the pitch of the impact, but what can the overtones tell me? What really helped you learn, besides endless practice?

I know tuning's more or less an art. It'll take a while for me to get good, that's ok. I just want my set to sound decent! I have a badass snare, and I'm tuning that next. Any advice or wisdom? I can tune my floor tom without a problem. Dunno why that is, it's probably the least damaged and holds the tightest.

Thank you!

[Russ]

Ah tuning, the never ending nightmare. Very resourceful of you to use your DAW for assistance, that's a great idea that I should probably try too. The problem I think that a lot of guys face is when they're watching these tuning videos, they're trying to develop the technique that the teacher uses, not their own. It's great if you like their sound and their way, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's yours. Gatzen for example likes to tune everything skyhigh and use single ply heads, haha. This is very good for jazz and big band, but if you like thunderous lows it just ain't gonna work for you.

I really like that you're trying to learn by ear, that's a step in the right direction definitely. Warped hoops huh? That's no good, but fortunately 2.3mm's are surprisingly inexpensive to replace so that would be my first step. If those hoops aren't able to lay flat, how can you expect even tension on a tom? It's probably not your fault as far as why you can't get them pitch perfect, it sounds like you're trying to make the best out of bad gear, no worries.

Aside from drumdials, tensionwatch, luglocks, and other tuning aides one popular thing beginners do is buy thick 2ply heads with rings, oil, dots, etc. The reason why is these heads are famous for not only fixing bad overtones, but being notoriously easy to tune. Dealing with thicker heads, i've noticed a 2 ply hardly needs many turns at all to get into it's "sweet spot". Some examples are evans hydraulic, aquarian performance II, remo pinstripe.

Personally when tuning, I use 1/4 turns on each lug going in a star pattern. I check by tapping in front of each lug until the pitches match. I start with the reso, when i'm finished with all of them, I do the batter side. I don't know, it's just easier for me to use it as a reference point. When you match pitches of all the drum's lugs, you will have good overtones! Your drumhead choices are critical when dialing in your sound, and if you immediately switched out your stocks for g2's or emp batters, bring out the stock heads again and put them on your smallest diameter drum. The stocks are going to probably sound a little less than amazing, but the goal is to get a good sound out of them. If you can make stocks sound good, you'll make the kit sound good no matter what, cause now you got the ear for it.

As for timelines, haha oh man. In the beginning, I actually made a lot of mistakes with it. I was using a beat to hell sunlite kit with really bad Weathermaster(made by Ludwig) heads, got them with dents and worn out coating to boot! Things would not hold a tune so I eventually replaced them with pinstripes, which I broke. I was overtightening and cranked them to their limit, and before long the heads were no good. Took me a good few years before everything clicked, and I started listening, using the technique I use now.

It was a costly mistake, but it's good to have learned all of it. I think the main thing is if you want to be good at tuning, it starts with being a good listener. And I mean drums are like your best friend, all you gotta do is listen to what it says, and react accordingly. I didn't listen in the beginning, and it sounded awful.

[everready]

Rythmkilla,

I feel your pain. I've been learning drums for about 5 weeks now. I've a set of old CB drums. The new heads for my toms finally arrived yesterday, EC2 360 on top and EC Reso for the bottom. I'm trying to get a good sound of the toms but frankly I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't like a lot of sustain so I'm tightening the top lugs one full turn and the bottoms 1/2 turn. I guess it's just trial and error. Man my neighbors are going to hate me!


Almost forgot.. you can always take a test online to see if you're tone deaf. I took one and rated at 80%. I did a lot better than I thought I would have.

[Pearl MCX Man]

Rythmkilla,

I feel your pain. I've been learning drums for about 5 weeks now. I've a set of old CB drums. The new heads for my toms finally arrived yesterday, EC2 360 on top and EC Reso for the bottom. I'm trying to get a good sound of the toms but frankly I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't like a lot of sustain so I'm tightening the top lugs one full turn and the bottoms 1/2 turn. I guess it's just trial and error. Man my neighbors are going to hate me!


Almost forgot.. you can always take a test online to see if you're tone deaf. I took one and rated at 80%. I did a lot better than I thought I would have.

I use the EC2's/EC reso and this is the tension that I use and they sound great. Batter side 1 full turn after finger tight and reso 1/2 more than batter. Try this and from there you either go up in 1/8 turn or go down.

Some like to tune
batter and reso same pitch.
Batter tighter than reso
reso tighter than batter
In other words it is preference to the sound you want. Good lluck.

[longgun]

Ah tuning, the never ending nightmare. Very resourceful of you to use your DAW for assistance, that's a great idea that I should probably try too. The problem I think that a lot of guys face is when they're watching these tuning videos, they're trying to develop the technique that the teacher uses, not their own. It's great if you like their sound and their way, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's yours. Gatzen for example likes to tune everything skyhigh and use single ply heads, haha. This is very good for jazz and big band, but if you like thunderous lows it just ain't gonna work for you.

I really like that you're trying to learn by ear, that's a step in the right direction definitely. Warped hoops huh? That's no good, but fortunately 2.3mm's are surprisingly inexpensive to replace so that would be my first step. If those hoops aren't able to lay flat, how can you expect even tension on a tom? It's probably not your fault as far as why you can't get them pitch perfect, it sounds like you're trying to make the best out of bad gear, no worries.

Aside from drumdials, tensionwatch, luglocks, and other tuning aides one popular thing beginners do is buy thick 2ply heads with rings, oil, dots, etc. The reason why is these heads are famous for not only fixing bad overtones, but being notoriously easy to tune. Dealing with thicker heads, i've noticed a 2 ply hardly needs many turns at all to get into it's "sweet spot". Some examples are evans hydraulic, aquarian performance II, remo pinstripe.

Personally when tuning, I use 1/4 turns on each lug going in a star pattern. I check by tapping in front of each lug until the pitches match. I start with the reso, when i'm finished with all of them, I do the batter side. I don't know, it's just easier for me to use it as a reference point. When you match pitches of all the drum's lugs, you will have good overtones! Your drumhead choices are critical when dialing in your sound, and if you immediately switched out your stocks for g2's or emp batters, bring out the stock heads again and put them on your smallest diameter drum. The stocks are going to probably sound a little less than amazing, but the goal is to get a good sound out of them. If you can make stocks sound good, you'll make the kit sound good no matter what, cause now you got the ear for it.

As for timelines, haha oh man. In the beginning, I actually made a lot of mistakes with it. I was using a beat to hell sunlite kit with really bad Weathermaster(made by Ludwig) heads, got them with dents and worn out coating to boot! Things would not hold a tune so I eventually replaced them with pinstripes, which I broke. I was overtightening and cranked them to their limit, and before long the heads were no good. Took me a good few years before everything clicked, and I started listening, using the technique I use now.

It was a costly mistake, but it's good to have learned all of it. I think the main thing is if you want to be good at tuning, it starts with being a good listener. And I mean drums are like your best friend, all you gotta do is listen to what it says, and react accordingly. I didn't listen in the beginning, and it sounded awful.

Great answer Russ

[rmandelbaum]

I find a drum has a natural point where it opens up, i tune one lug and listen for this then even out the lugs.

I then listen to the decay and tune the reso head until I get the sound I am after.

Every once in a while you will find tuning the batter that you cant get there. Snug up the reso a little then back to the batter.


Not rocket science but it works for me.

[Nechre]

Very recently the tuning by ear thing finally clicked for me... 14 or so years into the journey. I had been using tools to do all of the tuning before, so I severely neglected my ability to tune by ear. Now it's just faster for me to throw on a head, bring it up to tension, tap around the lugs to get em evened up.

I'll use the tools for some problem drums to get me in the area sometimes - My 12 gives me some headaches sometimes.

Hoops - Yeah, anything that attaches to the hoop itself is just bad news imo. If you replace the Rims, make sure to replace those cheaper iss mounts with the real deal pearl opti-mounts, which get the tension off of the heads and put it on the lugs. Or get some rims mounts, which distribute the pressure across more of the rim rather than one very small area.

[pastor_bob]

Welcome to Drum Chat RhythmKilla!

I'm sure that every drummer can feel your pain, because everyone's been through it. The most important thing that you need to learn is to recognize any pitch differences in front of each tension rod. Without being able to recognize those slight differences, you'll always struggle to get the head in tune with itself, and you'll end up with crazy overtones. If you struggle with that, get a Drumdial, or the equivalent, to help you recognize the differences in pitch. Eventually, you'll begin recognizing them for yourself. Frankly, I think you have fewer problems with pitch recognition than you might think if you can tune to a pitch on your DAW.

I think the greater problem is the warped hoops. If you are to ever get your kit tuned well, those will mostly likely have to be replaced. Your tuning skills might just be better than you think, and you might see that when the hoop issue is behind you.

As to how long it takes to tune well . . . I've been playing for about 6 years now, and although I've learned the basics, and many little tricks, I feel like I'm still learning. The last one that I learned the hard way is that I need to pay much more attention to how my drums will sound in a large room with lots of solid surfaces, and tune accordingly.

Hang in there, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask them. We're very happy to help in any way that we can.

Again, welcome!

[drummer]

Many years.

Contrary to popular opinion (and what most drummers would be willing to admit), just tune the damn things until they sound good. Don't worry about wrinkles. Don't worry about perfect pitches. Don't worry about perfect drum tuning technique. All that will just drive you crazy. Just make the drum sound good and you're done!

I've been using this method for years and I get "tons" of compliments on how good my drums sound.

P.S. I'm not saying throw out all of the techniques. I'm saying, if the techniques are not doing it for you, use your ears first and foremost. Also, you have to have good equipment. Most of it starts there. Make sure your heads are good, bearing edges are good, drums are good, etc. Don't forget the old saying, "If you polish a turd, it's still going to be a turd".

- Good luck!

[RhythmKilla]

Tom, are you the dude on youtube that says all you have to do is press down on the head and tension until there are no wrinkles? Eh... Man even just guessing with keyturns I can get a better sound, sorry man.

Yeah I'm sure it's going to take some time. Are you guys listening to the initial impact or the overtones? I realized I should start doing John Good's knuckle thing for sure. Just to make sure I'm hitting even.

About the skins and rims... I'm using Evans g3 with oil (obv) and and remo ambassador resos. I know head combos are for tonal freaks, and that you can get two skins sounding good, so I don't really wanna dwell on that. My issues here I think are the A;LSKDJA;LDSJ idiotic ISS system and the bent rims. Actually, the rims lie flat just fine. But one side is squeezed in, almost like if you were to point your elbows out with both hands on the rim and were trying to bend it in half inward towards itself. Except it's minute, if you looked at it it's not even visually apparent to me.

Looks like I have some time to go, huh. I need to become a manager or employee and guitarcenter, dang. haha! That'd be the dream. Learn to tune on the job, sell gear to folks, live among the drums.

[kay-gee]

Contrary to popular opinion (and what most drummers would be willing to admit), just tune the damn things until they sound good. Don't worry about wrinkles. Don't worry about perfect pitches. Don't worry about perfect drum tuning technique. All that will just drive you crazy. Just make the drum sound good and you're done!

Finally. Someone stood up to the plate and said it! Making them sound good is all you gotta do. No rocket science or special esoteric formula!

Thanks Drummer

all the best...

[wolvie56]

I think most of the techniques out there work well enough and if you wish to utilize one of these methods there's absolutely nothing wrong with adapting your method of choice. But in the end you will end up learning to tweak the head in your own fashion in order to get what sounds the best for YOU in the final tune. And that is what really matters. I think that we are all still learning because no 2 tuning sessions will end up exactly the same.

[Brent H]

+ 1 for Drummer

[drummer]

Tom, are you the dude on youtube that says all you have to do is press down on the head and tension until there are no wrinkles? Eh... Man even just guessing with keyturns I can get a better sound, sorry man.

Nope, not me. And I don't think you read or understood my post.

[drummer]

I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Great to have you here!

[TxDrummer]

many years.

Contrary to popular opinion (and what most drummers would be willing to admit), just tune the damn things until they sound good. Don't worry about wrinkles. Don't worry about perfect pitches. Don't worry about perfect drum tuning technique. All that will just drive you crazy. Just make the drum sound good and you're done!

I've been using this method for years and i get "tons" of compliments on how good my drums sound.

P.s. I'm not saying throw out all of the techniques. I'm saying, if the techniques are not doing it for you, use your ears first and foremost. Also, you have to have good equipment. Most of it starts there. Make sure your heads are good, bearing edges are good, drums are good, etc. Don't forget the old saying, "if you polish a turd, it's still going to be a turd".

- good luck!

+1

I've never used any tools to help me tune. It took me a few years to get that "magic" sound, but I did. Just as Drummer stated , your equipment must be up to par to get a good tuning.

[Russ]

I agree with tune them til they sound good, definitely. But one caution of this is to be sure you don't get that sound using uneven tension across the head. If it finally sounds good and you taptest later to find you have some cranked lugs and some with barely any, that's going to damage your head and probably your rims too. At least, that's how it went for me when I was doing whatever tuning it took to get the right sound. I had to pay out of pocket to replace a number of heads, lugs, and rims.

[RhythmKilla]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Can anyone tell me whether they prefer to listen to overtones or initial impact, and why? Just curious! Trying to learn as much as I can.

Tom- Thank you! It's good to be here.

I read your post. I just happen to think perfect pitch tuning sounds the greatest. There are a ton of different techniques out there, yes, and I'm trying all of them. I'm learning what works/doesn't work, but I obviously need to experiment with other techniques, tweak them, and use my ears. I also agree with russ because you can tune a snare great by really tightening one side hard, and the other side not as hard. But then when you dont hit it in the middle, you get different sounds. WAY different sounds. I know a few drummers that do this for that effect, but I'm not interested in doing that, really.

And for real, I really love perfect pitches! That sound when you have the resos one full turn tighter than the batters, and when everything's all pitched well makes me cry out in bed HOT DAYUM!

In all seriousness, though, it's something I strive for.

[Brent H]

So, with respect to another thread about how your drums sound to you playing verses the audience, how many drummers tune their drums off the kit and how many on their kit?

I tune the drum off the kit as it is tricky to tune the reso head while on the kit. Then I play the drum holding it by the isolation mount to hear how it sounds. If I like it, then it goes onto the kit and perhaps some fine tuning between the drum and the surrounding drums for a good sound relationship. I also stand in front and play the toms too to get that perspective. not the same as having someone play while I listen at a distance, but it works for my basement venue.

[Drumbledore]

I'm like Tom (appropriate name on the subject of tuning, pun intended) :P....anyhow, I'd always been tuning by ear as far as the drums on a kit go. It's been a number of years experimenting with different heads and different tunings.....whether even heads top and bottom of toms, or a slightly tighter bottom head, slack or medium slack bass drum heads with tighter front heads, bottom snare resonant head tuned a fourth above the snare batter head, loose snare heads and slack snares.....you name it, I've experimented with it. My first experiments, naturally, weren't that great, but from reading articles (pre-Internet days we're talking), to discussing with all and any drummer that I'd come across, over time I got into and developed an experienced ear for tuning. The only times when I do need to rely on some tuning device is when I've either had to tune timpani (or rototoms with thin timpani-like heads) for schools or the occasional percussion overdub recording, or if I want to tune a full set of my octobans to a diatonic scale.

[jgraham798]

What's a DAW?

[rickthedrummer]

5 minutes.

[Markadiddle]

What's a DAW?

Digital Audio Workstation.

[jgraham798]

Digital Audio Workstation.

Thanks Mark!

[thunderstruck]

Welcome to the forum. You will not get any better advice than what Drummer has given. There are no shortcuts when it comes to tuning drums. Take your time and just make them sound good.