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Thread: Cheating?

  1. #1

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    Recently, i've found myself with a bit of time on my hands while i'm away from my kit. It's in storage so i've been making monthly visits out to play it, but I spend a lot of time without. In my absence while I can't play my kit, i've been messing around on tables, books, pots/pans with towels, etc. Moving along..

    Anyway, my time away from the kit has forced me to be largely a pad player so i've really been working on my rudiments a bit more. I'm focusing not so much on speed but technique, I want to clear up my weaknesses and go back to basics while I can't actually play. So I got to thinking, what is proper technique and what isn't? Is there anything in drumming you can think of that's wrong to do, and should be corrected? Allow me to explain..

    With rudiments for example, is there anything in particular about playing them that is cheating? Should you stop doing these habits immediately? For example if you compulsively have to accent instead of playing every note the same? Using bounce rolls to get through and play faster? Reversing the order of paradiddles to start(rrlr or llrl), using two hits instead of one with the same hand? Raising one stick a lot higher on flams?

    I also want to know about other things in drumming too. Like is there a wrong way to hit cymbals, the kick, anything. What in drumming counts as cheating to you? I really want to take this time to really solidify and tighten my technique a bit, work on weaknesses and knowing these things may help a lot. Thanks in advance, in case I forget! Be well..
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    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  2. #2

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    Just remember to stroke out your doubles to keep them clean even when they're played at a fast bpm and accent the appropriate notes that's dictated by the rudiment.

  3. #3

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    These are just a few things that I thought of off the top of my head that I was taught in middle school and high school marching and from private lessons:

    When playing doubles, i.e. double stroke roll, paradiddles, etc., each hit should be treated as an independent stroke. You shouldn't really be relying on the rebound for the next hit. But there are times when using the rebound is necessary. Up to 135 bpm's, if double stroking the eighth note, each hit should be it's own stroke. 135 bpm's and above, if doubling the eighth note, is where you start using the rebound to your advantage. And on that note, some people when playing a regular double stroke open-handed roll at faster tempos tend to turn to a close handed roll/buzz roll technique. Playing an open handed roll at faster tempos will actually be easier on you than using the close handed technique. Make sure it's clean. Each hit equal distance from each other.

    If just playing rudiments as a warm up or something, play it exactly as it's written. Like a paradiddle, you would accent the first note of each grouping (Rlrr, Lrll). Another example is the ratamacue. There are technically three different dynamics in that one rudiment. It starts with a doubled grace note, then three regular hits, with an accent at the end. But the rudiments are preparing you for everything else, if you're on the kit or playing a snare solo or what have you, it's ok to have stickings that are different or rearranged or have different articulations.

    And keep all fingers on the stick. No tea pinkies. (Used to get yelled at for that in the middle school day)
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  4. #4

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    Think of it conceptually and you'll have everything you need to know. With sticking, the goal is "control". Therefore, to gain control, you must be sure that you can control every stroke. That's why they say to play each stroke in doubles. You will often need the medium speed doubles as part of a drum fill and if you can't control the strokes, you won't be able to play the fill. When it comes to putting different notes around the kit, rebound strokes are only part of a two part equation. The second part is control strokes.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    You will often need the medium speed doubles as part of a drum fill and if you can't control the strokes, you won't be able to play the fill.
    Hey Drummer, just curious, what do you consider as a medium speed in terms of BPM?

  6. #6

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    More rocket science for the art of hitting things with sticks.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    More rocket science for the art of hitting things with sticks.
    It's called, "Over thinkin' it".
    Stolen from EddieV:
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    More rocket science for the art of hitting things with sticks.
    Is it really rocket science though? I mean isn't it better to be doing smart work than hard work? I want my chops down solid, even if it has to stay at a slightly slower speed to have good technique. Just wanna do things the right way. I feel it's worth learning about in preparation for future, especially when i'm at the phase of auditioning for bands, trying to get gigs, etc.. Not saying i'm ready now, but I wanna be that guy, you know? The one guy everyone calls down to play for them, the first name on speed dial. Technique and skill will put me ahead of the game, it's gotta be worth the effort and time I spend worrying.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

    Forum Rules
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    No metronome?
    The Rudiments

  9. #9

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    If it sounds good, do it!(how many ratamacues are in "Houses of the Holy"anyway or for that matter in "Take Five"?)
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    If it sounds good, do it!(how many ratamacues are in "Houses of the Holy"anyway or for that matter in "Take Five"?)

    Take 5 has between none and 0 ratamacues in it. Houses of the Holy has about the same amount.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    Take 5 has between none and 0 ratamacues in it. Houses of the Holy has about the same amount.
    Thanks, Rick, My point is made!
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    Is it really rocket science though? I mean isn't it better to be doing smart work than hard work? I want my chops down solid, even if it has to stay at a slightly slower speed to have good technique. Just wanna do things the right way. I feel it's worth learning about in preparation for future, especially when i'm at the phase of auditioning for bands, trying to get gigs, etc.. Not saying i'm ready now, but I wanna be that guy, you know? The one guy everyone calls down to play for them, the first name on speed dial. Technique and skill will put me ahead of the game, it's gotta be worth the effort and time I spend worrying.

    The drummer (musician) who gets the gig is usually the 1 who fits what a band wants to do. If he has great technique and good speed, all the better, but, as proven by Ringo, whose "technical skills" border on non-existent, if he/she fits the band, they get the gig.

  13. #13

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    Cheating? Hardly. However, I would DEFINITELY experiment with accenting a different note or notes on your rudiments. It becomes very second nature to accent that downbeat but have you tried accenting to 2nd sixteenth? rLrr lRll.. then if you want to get super fancy!!! rlRr lrLl or rlrR lrlL for the double stroke pullout
    Last edited by SpatzST; 05-03-2013 at 02:45 AM.
    Too Much Stuff.

  14. #14

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    If it helps, I'm a rightie and (surprise surprise) pretty happy with my right arm, wrist and finger control. Everything happens quite smoothly and the tip of the stick travels in a predictable arc every time - so it is definitely controlled.
    My left hand - woah! Different story. Tip of stick flying all over the place.
    So, I have taken months and months of trying to analyse the differences between my right and left arms, wrists and fingers, and have tried hard to make my left hand mirror the right hand, in every respect. Loads and loads of practice with, and without sticks.
    And it is definitely paying off (slowly).
    So, develop your own set of exercises that work every aspect of your arms and in particular your wrists and fingers, and make your weak side match your strong side (assuming the strong side has good technique).
    (And finger control is soooooooooooooo important)
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  15. #15

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    Here are a few ideas:

    When talking about drumset, I don't think anything is considered cheating if you can reliably get the correct sound by doing it. I would worry more about limiting yourself to playing things one way.

    Take paradiddles as an easy example: RLRR LRLL is usually comfortable, but so should all these be: RLLR LRRL / RRLR LLRL / RLRL LRLR. Take a look at your bag of tricks and licks and play around with exhausting different ways of sticking the rhythms you are already comfortable with. Look at the flam rudiments - (accents, taps, inverted taps, flam-a-cue, flamadiddles) and try to play all the flams as even double stops. You'll rarely actually play a long string of any of these, but it helps with learning new and odd hand and double groupings if you've already worked out most of the combinations in exercise form.

    Probably slightly more important in my mind than even strong doubles is good stick height control. I think being able to play accent patterns using 2 distinct heights only is critically important to steady grooving on the kit. Start with 9" and 3", then 6/3, 6/1, and 3/1. There are times when wide open heights are appropriate, but being able to accurately control how loud the next hit is going to be is really handy.

    Also - beware "pad hands". I can absolutely throw down on a RealFeel pad sometimes, but loose a step on actual drums. It doesn't hurt my technique, just my ego sometimes.

    I hope at least something here helps.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Hey Drummer, just curious, what do you consider as a medium speed in terms of BPM?
    Sorry for the delay Tex, I just saw this. By medium, I mean anything less than sped up doubles where drummer's often depend on the bounce to help make the roll. When you start slowing a double stroke roll down, you need to rely more and more on control of each individual stroke.

    And as far as BPM, it depends on what note values we're talking about. I don't have a metronome in front of me at the moment but I can measure something out for you if you want to have more of an example.

  17. #17

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    My best guess: a medium speed song: Cream's "Sunshine of Your Love."
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  18. #18

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    hard to say what a medium would be. My medium could be fast or slow to the next guy

  19. #19

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    "Cheating" would be playing the rudiment in such a way as to evade the technique it is trying to teach. For example, the biggest advantage of having strong paradiddles is that you are able to play doubles and singles between your hands at the same speed without rushing the double or accenting the singles - that's what makes great paradiddles, the fact that you cannot tell there is a difference in the sticking.

    So when working on new rudiments, try to figure out what the goal of that rudiment is, or what lesson it is trying to teach you. If it has flams in it, make sure they are audible flams and you don't accidentally play the two notes in unison. If certain notes are accented, make sure that all other notes in the pattern are played at an equal lower volume, no ups and downs in dynamics only accented and unaccented.

    At the end of the day, rudiments are designed to trip up your current habits to give you a greater level of control over your playing. So, don't allow your habits to get introduced to the practice unnoticed.
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  20. #20

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    If you're not cheating you're not trying.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by zzzdanz View Post
    hard to say what a medium would be. My medium could be fast or slow to the next guy
    Exactly.
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