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Thread: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

  1. #1

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    Default Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Looks like the Crush is about $50 more for a 5 pc kit, same sizes 10, 12, 16 22 bd.. I would also consider 12, 13, 16 22.

    This will be mostly a gigging kit so probably a wrapped finish would be better but not a show stopper.

    I am leaning towards the Crush as it seems better in most categories.

    Crush is 6ply grade "A" Birch whatever that is vs PDP 7 ply who knows what type of birch?


    10 lugs on the Crush BD vs 8 on the pdp, plus it seems the pdp only offers a lacquer for the birch kits.

    Crush is a virgin BD and pdp is not which normally I have always been told that virgin is better (stay with me were talking drums : )


    Here is my dilemma, I have only ever played 2 rack toms from a rack mount on top of the BD. I am worried if I get the Crush kit trying to position the rack toms is going to be too big of a change and will effect my playing? Is this a viable concern or are the toms mounted from cymbal stands easy enough to position like they are right on top of the BD?

    Crush says it has double 45 degree bearing edges, does anyone know what this means?


    Thanks guys, also let me know any other pro's and cons I may be over looked with these 2 kits. Peace
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    This is coming from a guy who is notorious for disliking PDP/DW.
    1. Grade A sounds like a marketing ploy to me. Grade A to who?
    2.10 lugs vs 8, my Superstars and most other kick drums only have 8
    3. Virgin kick is no better or worse, its a visual thing.

    So, go try both kits and whichever one makes you smile, go with it.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Double 45 degree edges are also sometimes referred to as counter cut. Makes for more interaction with the drumhead, and in some cases a full roundover is used for more. Not as much sustain, body, or volume as a single cut but very balanced between these characteristics. Birch is already dry, personally i'd leave it a single 45 - it's the perfect profile for those types of shells, in my opinion. Regarding the kit, which one do you like more as far as sound and looks go? Personally i'd choose the PDP's because you'll likely have better support, but i'm sure the Crush's are a sweet kit too.
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  4. #4

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Yeah trying them both is going to be tough.. there is no crush dealer around here. Hmmm Maybe the rack mount on top of the BD with would be better for quick set up while gigging on the pdp..hmmmmm decisions decisions.. I really wish those silver stars had worked out...dang it..

    I am going to go hit a Yammie Stage custom birch this week and will add that to the mix..about the same price as the pdp's and if I can get them from local shop even better.
    Last edited by MDK; 05-05-2013 at 05:25 PM.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
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    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I personally dont like virgin kicks, the weight of the toms help hold the kit in place!

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    I personally dont like virgin kicks, the weight of the toms help hold the kit in place!
    good point, never thought of that.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
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    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I've never heard it called Grade A either. I know there's lower quality birch, and then the higher end birch which comes from Hokkaido, Japan. There's also birch from Keller, which could be considered like North American maple is - high quality all around. If it's a high end birch kit, there's a chance these are the shells used to make it!
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    I personally dont like virgin kicks, the weight of the toms help hold the kit in place!
    The spurs do the same thing, and don't inhibit tone.
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    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  9. #9

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I Would go with crush, only if you like deep bass drums tho
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I would most likely go with the Crush Im really liking a lot of what they are doing and every year they seem to be upgrading many features.
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  11. #11

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    It all comes down to the sound you want. Look up some youtube videos(prefereably some where the kits aren't eqed too much) and try and get an idea from those if you can't hear the crush set in person.
    I personally don't have a favorite brand per se, but call myself a pdp guy cuz i just happen to own a nice pdp fs(same thing as the pdp concept birch). From what i know both kits are nice, but the pdp's don't seem to have as much low end as i've heard some other birch kits have. I know that generally birch doesn't produce a lot of low end, but for my birch kit its not as great as others. But its very punchy, projects well, and with remo emperor suede heads it doesn't resonate so bad that you need tape or anything, like it did with clear heads. plus the remo suede heads added to its puchiness.

    Bottom line i would just eenie meenie minie moe it, cuz as far as both kits go(from what i know of both kits, cuz i've never heard the crush kit in person) neither one is really better than the other.
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  12. #12

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I just picked up a Crush Chameleon Birch kit at the beginning of the year. I've never been a big fan of birch kits--I prefer maple--but I really liked the white-on-white, and the price was pretty good. I got it as a second kit, and initially got a 4pc, but added a rack & a floor tom to make it 10-12-14-16, with a 20x22" kick. I have an old Yamaha double tom stand that I used to mount the toms to the left of the kick. Before I got the second tom I mounted the 12" off a stand and it worked just fine. I just gigged with it for the first time last week and got some good comments on it, even from the sound man. Normally I don't muffle my kick much at all--usually just an EMAD--but I had to put a couple sweatshirts in this one to get a sound I liked when I set up at the show. The toms took quite a bit of tweaking to get tuned good, but that probably had a lot to do with having different heads on them (more about that in a minute...) The tuning issues still disappointed me, though; my maple kit (OCDP Avalon) sounded great the first time I set them up, without even needing to tune them, and they're much easier to tune when I change heads.




    Now the bad...I got the 4pc kit in late December & ordered the 10" & 14" toms at the same time...and finally got them in April. They're made in China, and there was a looooooong wait to get them in. During that time, the tom mounts were redesigned from a two-point to a 4-point X-mount, so I ended up with one of each. I emailed the company I bought them from--All-Pro Percussion in FL--and they contacted Crush. They sent a new one out right away, so that problem was solved. We'll ultimately chalk that up as a positive. They also changed the heads they ship on them, so I have two toms with pinstripes & two with Emperors. None of this should matter to you, though...for the most part, it just speaks to Crush's service--pretty good, as long as they have it. Just order your stuff from a store that has it in stock...
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  13. #13

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    All woods have a grade to them..ex; if you were to make kitchen cabinets, you'ld use grade A birch, maple, etc.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Thanks Tadly,

    Still my concern will be with the tom set up. I am worried it will effect my playing to have the rack toms off to the left like that as I ma used to straight above the bass drum..hmmmm gotta do some research.

    Thanks Groove I have not ruled out the pdp yet, I llike the mounting system. I like the thought of suede heads too, how do they hold up after some playing?
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    7" Moon Gel Practice Pad
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    One other thing I can add...changing heads on the Crush kit can be a chore. The "chameleon" thing with the changeable lug inserts may be cool, but the pin that holds the insert in is also threaded for the tension rod. There's nothing else holding it in place, so when the tension rod is out it'll "float". It has to be lined up just right to thread the tension rod in, and that can be a pain. If they would flatten on edge of the pin along with the hole it goes through it would be much, much better. I can post pics later to show you what I'm talking about.
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  16. #16

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    So it's like Yamaha's Noveau lug?
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  17. #17

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Made in China? not sure but I would want to stay clear...I know more may chime in here against me...call me old fashioned..but I have seen some of their cabinet finishes and we dropped them..they just do NOT have the same inspection on chemicals used and controls in place..just cheap pricing that we all here ( in USA anyway ) come to expect...too bad
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  18. #18

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    The spurs do the same thing, and don't inhibit tone.
    There is no discernable difference sound wise between kick mounted toms and a virgin kick. That is the biggest bunch of advertising bull**** out there today. Unless you play your kick with clear ambos on both sides tuned to the shells sympathetic note with nothing inside, your head will dampen the sound more than the toms mounted on it.

    Yes the spurs are supposed to hold the kick in place, but I have a very heavy foot and in my experience virgin kicks move much more than kicks with the extra weight of the tom on them.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    It's not advertising, it's a science of drummaking. Adding holes or weight to any drumshell changes how that drumshell behaves, it's a modification. Heads, tuning, finish, hardware, are other types of modifications done to a shell which change the sonic properties. Take a die cast hoop for example, it uses more weight to achieve more stable tunings and reduced overtones. But if you use weight on a bass drum by way of tom mount, it also causes a tone change. Some will notice, some will not.
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    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  20. #20

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Quote Originally Posted by machinedrumkelly View Post
    Thanks Tadly,

    Still my concern will be with the tom set up. I am worried it will effect my playing to have the rack toms off to the left like that as I ma used to straight above the bass drum..hmmmm gotta do some research.

    Thanks Groove I have not ruled out the pdp yet, I llike the mounting system. I like the thought of suede heads too, how do they hold up after some playing?
    I've had a kit with a virgin kick and a kit with the tom mount on the bass drum. I think that it's actually easier to get them where you want them when they're on a stand. Between memory locks and having my drum rug marked up for the tripods, set up is breeze. It's more flexible too. There's no right or wrong here, just a matter of personal preference.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  21. #21

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    It's not advertising, it's a science of drummaking. Adding holes or weight to any drumshell changes how that drumshell behaves, it's a modification. Heads, tuning, finish, hardware, are other types of modifications done to a shell which change the sonic properties. Take a die cast hoop for example, it uses more weight to achieve more stable tunings and reduced overtones. But if you use weight on a bass drum by way of tom mount, it also causes a tone change. Some will notice, some will not.

    Please read everything I wrote.

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Why do you assume I don't? All things are considered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  23. #23

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Because if you did, you would notice that I never said it doesnt make any difference.

  24. #24

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    I think the dampening that heads do, is different from other variables that cause dampening to the shell itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  25. #25

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    Default Re: Crush Chameleon Birch VS PDP Concept Birch?

    Yes since the head makes up about 90% of a drums sound I would say it is diffrerent.

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