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Thread: Hi - Hat questions

  1. #1

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    Default Hi - Hat questions

    Please advise :

    My hat situation right now is a pair of "K" Zildjian 13" hats on an old Rogers hat stand.........when I bought the stand, it was the best thing available at the time.

    I can't get a good "chick" sound out of the hats when using the foot........everything sounds fine when using a stick.

    Is it time for a new stand or am I just not getting an adjustment done correctly ???

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  2. #2

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    Default Re: Hi - Hat questions

    I would hazard a guess that a new stand is in order. "Old" can be good, but there have been advances in design to give sounds that modern music requires.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Hi - Hat questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Please advise :

    My hat situation right now is a pair of "K" Zildjian 13" hats on an old Rogers hat stand.........when I bought the stand, it was the best thing available at the time.

    I can't get a good "chick" sound out of the hats when using the foot........everything sounds fine when using a stick.

    Is it time for a new stand or am I just not getting an adjustment done correctly ???

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    If the hats go up and down and the tilt adjuster is OK, it's in the adjustment of the tilter.

    A brand new stand is still going to go up and down and have a tilt adjuster the same as the 1 you have now, unless there has been some new hi-hat design that I'm not aware of.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    If the hats go up and down and the tilt adjuster is OK, it's in the adjustment of the tilter.

    A brand new stand is still going to go up and down and have a tilt adjuster the same as the 1 you have now, unless there has been some new hi-hat design that I'm not aware of.
    No disagreement rtd, I just can't get the right chick sound.
    And the "K"s sound awesome.........that ain't the problem.
    I'll keep messing with it.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  5. #5

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    Could you get a good chick sound with your old hats on the same stand? Cause if the only thing that has changed is the hats........

  6. #6

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    Sounds like 'air-lock'. Is the bottom cymbal tilter adjusted to provide a little relief?

  7. #7

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    Do they still close?
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    Sounds like 'air-lock'. Is the bottom cymbal tilter adjusted to provide a little relief?
    Air-lock might just be the best description. This is the old-style tilter..............what are you using between the tilting screw and the felt ?
    I think I need to try some different materials here.
    I've seen some newer tilters that are made differently (better ?).
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Air-lock might just be the best description. This is the old-style tilter..............what are you using between the tilting screw and the felt ?
    I think I need to try some different materials here.
    I've seen some newer tilters that are made differently (better ?).
    I have a rubber washer that sits in between the tilter that came stock with my Pearl H2000 hihat stand. In my opinion, the best piece of engineering on the hihat stand:



    The washer provides enough stable foundation for the bottom cymbal cup tilter to prevent the hats from air-lock. I also have hats with vents cut into the bottom cymbal cup. One was factory cut (AAX fast Hats). The other I had modified. I've noticed that the hats without vents (I own several without vents) have a less of a chick sound when I use the hihat pedal

    Last edited by late8; 05-06-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Hi - Hat questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Air-lock might just be the best description. This is the old-style tilter..............what are you using between the tilting screw and the felt ?
    I think I need to try some different materials here.
    I've seen some newer tilters that are made differently (better ?).
    on my old ludwig spur lock there was a metal washer under the felt the screw lifted the washer and the felt. Are your k's mastersounds or regular k customs? The master sound has indentations on bottom cymbal that allows air to escape creating a better chick sound. I have a set of k's that I use for jazz, if I want to use them for a more aggressive music I swap out the bottom cymbal to a mastersound, in my case either an A or A custom. Both give a significant boost. You could also try reversing the bottom cymbal with the top and see if it gives a better result. I now have a Pearl and a dw both use a rubber washer that has high spots to isolate the cymbal from the screw and suspend them better then "flat" The Pearl also uses a rubber ball on the clutch that suspends the top cymbal in a sort of floatation

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Hi - Hat questions

    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    I have a rubber washer that sits in between the tilter that came stock with my Pearl H2000 hihat stand. In my opinion, the best piece of engineering on the hihat stand:



    The washer provides enough stable foundation for the bottom cymbal cup tilter to prevent the hats from air-lock. I also have hats with vents cut into the bottom cymbal cup. One was factory cut (AAX fast Hats). The other I had modified.
    I'll get one of these Pearl washers............that looks like the ticket.
    I'm not drilling a $400 pair of "K" Zildjians.

    Thanks to all that helped me out with this.
    This remains to be a great message board.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    I'm not drilling a $400 pair of "K" Zildjians.
    By no means vent the bottom of a hihat cymbal unless you specifically want that effect or sound. The Paiste Rude SoundEdge hihats that's pictured above has the indentations along the edge of the bottom cymbal that prevents air lock, and projects the sound out beyond the hats similar to the Zildjian MasterSound design. The AAX Fast Hats have three factory vents cut into the bottom cup that helps with fast action foot pedal as well as giving me the tight "chick" when the hats are played closed.

    AAX Fast Hat bottom cymbal vent:



    The HHX hats were $385 without the mod:

    Last edited by late8; 05-07-2013 at 11:35 AM.

  13. #13

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    Ricardo, might not be in your case, but many moons ago I had to retire my old Rogers hi-hat stand that came with my first Rogers set, simply because the hi-hat pull rod mechanism, although well looked after, just eventually became too sluggish and then finally the screw thread where the pull rod connected was old and wore down. These things happen with hardware and other parts (I know, I've been pulling apart and reassembling kits, rethreading screw threads, doing all manner of modifications and maintenance for a long time now)......it might be the case or perhaps not with your particular hi-hat stand (unless I was there, it'd be a bit hard to tell). Then again, if the pull rod isn't sluggish, and everything from the pull rod to the hi-hat clutch is working fine once you've given them all a thorough check, then it might be what others have pointed out, perhaps the tilt angle of you bottom hi-hat or the cymbals themselves.....Rich especially in his typically thorough style has given some great tips, so investigate that.
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  14. #14

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    That's why Rich gets paid the big bucks.

  15. #15

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    i drilled my k/z's and was very pleased, not a huge difference. just never had to worry about air lock or tlter position again.
    don't put off till tomorrow what you can put off today

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    Ricardo, might not be in your case, but many moons ago I had to retire my old Rogers hi-hat stand that came with my first Rogers set, simply because the hi-hat pull rod mechanism, although well looked after, just eventually became too sluggish and then finally the screw thread where the pull rod connected was old and wore down. These things happen with hardware and other parts (I know, I've been pulling apart and reassembling kits, rethreading screw threads, doing all manner of modifications and maintenance for a long time now)......it might be the case or perhaps not with your particular hi-hat stand (unless I was there, it'd be a bit hard to tell). Then again, if the pull rod isn't sluggish, and everything from the pull rod to the hi-hat clutch is working fine once you've given them all a thorough check, then it might be what others have pointed out, perhaps the tilt angle of you bottom hi-hat or the cymbals themselves.....Rich especially in his typically thorough style has given some great tips, so investigate that.
    Thank you Drumble :
    I pull it apart and check it out completely.
    I have some time tonight to do that.
    I think I bought that stand in 1976, so it might need retirement.

    Regards,
    R
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  17. #17

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    Default Re: Hi - Hat questions

    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    I have a rubber washer that sits in between the tilter that came stock with my Pearl H2000 hihat stand. In my opinion, the best piece of engineering on the hihat stand:


    Drumble and Late8 :

    I disassembled the old Rogers hi hat and cleaned everything and sprayed the moving parts with WD - 40.................the darn thing is over 35 years old and works perfectly............no noise anywhere.............this was the Cadillac of hi hat stands in the mid - 70s and it is still rock - solid.
    I also went to my local GC and to my surprise they had exactly ONE NP - 208 Pearl Rubber Ridge so I got it.................brought it home and BINGO........this thing is the perfect solution.
    The old hi hat still does not have the adjustable tripod to accomodate slave bass pedals but at least the Speed Cobra has long boards so I can make do.

    WOW -- a product from Pearl that I actually love -- there is a first for everything.


    Thanks for the advice guys...............problem solved.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


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