So about 2 years ago I purchased a set of Paiste 2002 cymbals. They were the 15" Sound-edge hi hat, an 18" medium crash, a 24" ride, a 20" medium crash and a 16" thin crash. Around 6 months of use, I noticed the 16" had some cracks in the bell hole and the hi hat hat a tiny crack on the edge that I always have faced away from me (I'm OCD about that. I always have the logo so I can read them. idk). I brought them to the local retailer that I bought them from, and I figured I should just trade everything in in case I got a bad batch. Around a year after that, the 16" was fine, the 20" was fine as was the hi hat. The 18" and the ride had a few cracks this time, so I traded those in and my retailer told me that this was the last time. Just now, I've noticed my hi hat is literally cracked everywhere. The bell hole has 5-6 up to 1/2 an inch long, there is an inch long crack on the side faced away from me and a tiny 1/4 inch crack on the side I hit. The 20" also has a few cracks as well. I'm at a loss right now as every time it's a different cymbal that cracks. I barely use the 20" compared to the 18" yet it's cracked and the 18 is fine, the ride which I smash is fine as is the 16 which is so fragile and was destroyed the first time. As my retailer most certainly won't take it, is it a waste of time to even ask Paiste anything? I'm thinking it is, but I thought'd I'd ask. I don't pound my hi hat, I really don't however I will have a hard time proving it. :(
Thanks in advance for any help. :D
Its not the cymbals.
Well, alright. I don't think the cymbals should be cracking all over from playing 1-2 hours a day 6 hours apart if I'm hitting them as much as any other 'hard hitting' drummer. The drums I pound, the cymbals less so. Regardless, now I know to be even more careful in the future. :(
For the sake of trying to prolong the life of this hi hat, is it bad if I switch the top and bottom hi hat? The bottom is completely fine and the top is cracking. The bottom has the little bumps in it as it's the sound edge.
I don't know whether Zildjians are stronger, but I used a 14" hi hat, 10" splash, 16" crash, 18" crash and a 20" ride for 3-4 years and never had a problem at all. They were the A Custom series. 6 months into the paistes and they're cracking and it's a different cymbal each time. I'm not hitting them harder or softer.
Also, the 'ride which I smash', that's in comparison to the cymbals that are cracked. I hit my ride and 18 more than the others, yet they're the ones that are fine. I don't think it's me because after 6 months of little use, the 16" cracked like crazy, and after it was replaced, 2 years of more use than before leave it completely fine.
Last edited by Spenny; 07-13-2014 at 04:20 PM. Reason: I wanted to add in something I forgot to add in without making a new post.
If you are getting cracks around the mounting holes this is probably due to screwing down too tight causing too much stress - you should be able to swing the cymbals fairly easily, if movement is restricted they will be prone to cracking around the centres.
As for the cracks developing everywhere, sorry bud but I think you are either suspending your cymbals dead flat so you are constantly 'biting' into the edges or absolutely beating the snot out of them. I have a few drummer friends in punk bands that have been using the same ride and hi hats for over 25 years - they have cracked the odd crash cymbal over the years but claim that a decent crash will last for at least 2 years, normally closer to 5 - they beat the crap out of their cymbals occasionally but haven't experienced the same problems as you.
I doubt you will have much luck by changing brands - IMO if you routinely crack 2002s you will probably break anything. Think its a cymbal mounting/too much force issue.
That's what the guy at the store told me, so when I got the new cymbals after trading them in, I've had them loose since. As for angle, they are slightly angled. They aren't completely flat, but would having them only slightly angled crack them? Mind you, it's only the hi hat that has every had cracks on the edges, I suppose it is me, but I don't hit it that hard.
If I could use a Zildjian for 4 years and have no issues and use 2 paistes and have them crack, idk. Problem is, I absolutely LOVE the sound of them. I'll make do with it for now before replacing them and I'll try to loosen the top even more then. As for the crashes though, they really can't be me. The tops were loose, I barely hit them as hard, and they seem crack and sometimes not crack. If I'd had 3 16's in a row that cracked, I'd know it was me, but only the first cracked, the rest have been fine.
Whatever, I'm babbling. Thanks for the advise guys. :D
Hit with a glacing motion across the cymbal, dont hammer through the cymbal, Like a diagonal pattern glacing swish motions
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I try to mount my crashes so I can lay the stick across the cymbal and not bite into the edge with the shoulder or shaft of the stick. Do you have your cymbals mounted high? If so you may be routinely striking the edge - (a weak area of the cymbal) which forces the cymbal back against the stand putting excessive force on the center mounting holes.
Check your sticks - if they have lots of marks like shallow cuts around the shoulder of the stick you are probably 'biting' into the edges. If that is the case try mounting a little lower and angling the cymbals toward you. As a rule of thumb the tops of my crash stands are at the same level as my nose when seated behind the kit and I angle my cymbals towards me by about 20 degrees from horizontal. so that when seated I can see the top of the cymbals entirely and they look rugby (or American?) football shaped - this means I will never accidentally bite into my crashes with the stick. With my hats I have them level with my elbow - again the stick will fall naturally on the top hat without biting into the edge.
Practicing using a swiping (side to side) motion so you are striking the cymbals at an angle as previously suggested - this can only help.
I noticed you are using large diameter cymbals - if the rest of your band are amplified and you play lots of LOUD stuff - are you striking your cymbals really hard to compensate - is it a case of needing to mic up your kit?
I can't believe I didn't realise this, but I've got videos of me on Youtube playing. Nothing has changed with that kit or the positions of the cymbals or anything. That's as hard as I've ever hit them, maybe harder on the cymbals than I normally do, but that's the relative idea.
I didn't see anything in the forum rules about not being allowed to post links in general. This isn't really self promotion. This is how I play them and how I have them positioned. If it isn't allowed, then I'll get rid of it and try to explain it otherwise.
From left to right there is the 16", 20", 24", 18" and then the hi hat.
Go through everything Is it your stands do you have felts, tight (ik you already did this), cymbal sleeve maybe( the little plastic part that goes around the metal rod sticking up not sure if it will help them from cracking but it will help prevent them from key holing), positioning of the cymbal like stated above, How big are your sticks try going to a lighter thinner stick for ex: marching sticks bad, forum on playing the cymbals. This really scares me with my own cymbals because i am afraid of cracking them there sabian and a lot of there artist support there strength but those are also there artist. I am so careful with them. Another thing that might affect it is temperature change.
Sabian!!!
Well, your drumming is pretty cool...i dig the bonham work...i didn't think you were hitting them hard enough to cause the damage you describe....wingnuts appeared to let the cymbals fly around freely..are there plastic grommets on the stems where the cymbal touches through the hole?
How about showing the guy at the music store your video? Or send it to Paiste?
Hey Spenny! Welcome to DrumChat. I watched your video and enjoyed your playing. Although you don't bash your cymbals, I did take note on where you're landing the stick in relation to the cymbal.
The Ride: I noticed you favor the left side of the ride than hitting it more in the middle where the cymbal is supported by the stand. In my humble opinion, this tends to put more unequal stress on the bow of the cymbal which could result in cracks.
The Crash: I did find that you do use glancing blows on the crash cymbals but not all the time. The chopping down motion of your right arm forces the stick to pass through the cymbal which could lead to cracks.
Here's the GIF that I used to take the screenshots. You can see where you only use 1/3 of the ride cymbal and it also shows the chop down motion of your right arm when it hits the 16" crash. You may want to keep your arm motions consistant and avoid the chop down motion and keep using the glancing hits instead.
Last edited by late8; 07-15-2014 at 12:09 PM.
and tape those headphones to your head!!!! just kidding...
You should be fine now. You've loosened the nuts, angled your pies, and are trying to utilize the "glancing blow" technique.
You haven't told us what size sticks your using. 2B's are like 2 x 4's compared to 7B's. That could make a difference as well.
Maybe look into cymbal springs. They are designed to protect your cymbals by allowing them free movement. Some say to much movement, but with a little practice there is zero difference. Plus they eliminate the need for wing nuts, felts, and sleeves. I have them for all my cymbals and love them. Red for 16" and under, yellow for anything greater than 16" and all china cymbals. Welcome to the forum.
Last edited by wolvie56; 07-15-2014 at 05:37 PM.
Custom Classic Pro Maple 6
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You could be mounting it wrong. cymbal sleeves are there to prevent from cymbal to metal...metal on metal contact. the threads on the cymbal stand could be bending the small hole on your cymbal back and forth everytime you play. and when you being metal back and forth its strength weakens and starts cracking. that's a possibleity. or your mounting it to tight and the hard hitting loud drumming of john Bonham is taking is total on the cymbal.
Spenny, if you're hitting the cymbals hard, I must be hitting like Godzilla! OK, an olde Godzilla.
There's no good reason I can think of for the cymbals to crack as you've described!
I have a 3 yr. old, 16" Medium 2002 that I crash almost edge-on(with Regal Tip 5A's) because it sounds so nice! No cracks it that. Beats the living stuffings out of the sticks, tho.
SONOR 6 pc Special Edition 3007's red maple, old Pearl Brass 14x6 FF snare, Yamaha Tour Custom maple 8 pc., Tama 4 pc., honey amber B/B, Ludwig Supralite chrome 14x6.5 steel snare, Paiste, Saluda & Zildjianhttp://www.facebook.com/DerailedRockers/
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are you using the butt ends of your sticks? Nothing wrong with that I do too but maybe 2002's don't like that. I use all Zildjian and haven't had a problem using the butts. My ride is an original 22" Z. A real tank. Not very musical and my crashes are custom Z's as well as the hat top. I try my best to use the glance motion when crashing and I keep them fairly loose. I have added an extra felt on a few of the stands but they still are able to swing freely
nice kit! what snare do you use?
Last edited by slinky; 07-16-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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