Wuh?

[inthpktplayer]

So, Monday I and my drumming were described as being "like a drum machine" and "robotic". Not sure what to make of that. I've been playing a long time and I've heard just about everything including "you suck", but this is a new one for me. I've been at this too long and am too old to really give a rat's arse. Funny though.

[rickthedrummer]

If it came from someone in the band, I'd give it some thought then go have a scotch and a nap.

If it came from someone in the crowd, I'd skip the thinking about it and go directly to the scotch and nap.

Seriously, I've heard it all. Too loud, too soft, too much drums, not enough drums.

I got to the point where I would ask them "And you are playing where tonight?"

The 1 I loved the best (and this was only from sarcastic drummers) was asking them what their band gets a night, then telling them that I make that much in the 1st 2 hours I play, so KMA.

[NewTricks]

Should have simply said "Thank you".

[FlyByNight]

If it came from someone in the band, I'd give it some thought then go have a scotch and a nap.

If it came from someone in the crowd, I'd skip the thinking about it and go directly to the scotch and nap.

Seriously, I've heard it all. Too loud, too soft, too much drums, not enough drums.

I got to the point where I would ask them "And you are playing where tonight?"

The 1 I loved the best (and this was only from sarcastic drummers) was asking them what their band gets a night, then telling them that I make that much in the 1st 2 hours I play, so KMA.

Love it

[Russ]

Since drum machines keep perfect time, i'd consider that a compliment. The main beat is almost always the most important, so being good at playing it seems the best investment of time and practice. While solos and fills add style, they are more of an assist and should be used sparingly if at all. Playing straight beats will always sound good, and more importantly - get you hired. I'd say you're on the right path.

[Olimpass]

So, Monday I and my drumming were described as being "like a drum machine" and "robotic". Not sure what to make of that. I've been playing a long time and I've heard just about everything including "you suck", but this is a new one for me. I've been at this too long and am too old to really give a rat's arse. Funny though.

It was a compliment!
I was called "a time piece" once and also "the drum whisperer"....lol

[wolvie56]

Machines don't make mistakes and are always "inthpktplayer"'s.

[8beat]

Maybe they want you to put on a show, move around more.

[CB700]

Next time hand them the sticks and say here you go you play.

[N2Bluz]

I agree with Rick, it really depends on the source as to how I would take it. Obviously, being able to keep time like a metronome is what we strive for. On the flip side, its important to play with feeling and emotion....accents, off-beats, dynamics, changing beats between sections of a song, all that good stuff. If it was from a knowledgeable and valid source, then it might be a great opportunity to step back and evaluate yourself.

It also may have been intended as a compliment from someone who didn't realize how such a comparison might be interpreted by a drummer.

[Russ]

I agree with Rick, it really depends on the source as to how I would take it. Obviously, being able to keep time like a metronome is what we strive for. On the flip side, its important to play with feeling and emotion....accents, off-beats, dynamics, changing beats between sections of a song, all that good stuff. If it was from a knowledgeable and valid source, then it might be a great opportunity to step back and evaluate yourself.

It also may have been intended as a compliment from someone who didn't realize how such a comparison might be interpreted by a drummer.

All this I agree with. Especially the last part - to a drummer, the same thing you'd say to someone else can mean something different to one of us, entirely. Different strokes for different folks.

[Drumbledore]

So, Monday I and my drumming were described as being "like a drum machine" and "robotic". Not sure what to make of that. I've been playing a long time and I've heard just about everything including "you suck", but this is a new one for me. I've been at this too long and am too old to really give a rat's arse. Funny though.

Well, it might depend on where the comment is coming from, but if it's coming from other drummers, I'll put it down to professional jealousy because you're holding down a gig and they're not. Tell them to go fly a kite.

[marko138]

Machines don't make mistakes and are always "inthpktplayer"'s.

I agree.

[rickthedrummer]

Machines don't make mistakes and are always "inthpktplayer"'s.

...............and therein lies the problem.

[Bish]

Not to hi-jack the thread but I just noticed Rick has 5678 posts as of the one above me.

No biggie, I had nothing better to do during the past 5 minutes.

[inthpktplayer]

I appreciate you guys reading this and responding. As I mentioned in the original post, I'm not giving it a second thought and mentioned it here because I thought it was sort of amusing.

I've been doing this too long to react to opinion about my playing. I know I am good at what I do and I am comfortable with my style. After all of these years, I'm not going to change and there is no reason to do so. I've never had any trouble getting to participate in any projects and have never been "fired" from a band. I do what I do well. Steady timekeeper, good foundation in the rudiments, tasteful fills, occasional fancy solo when required. All of these things have kept me busy throughout the years.

To put it in context, the comment was made during a rehearsal of the original project that I'm currently involved with. These have been some of the most involved and, at times, frustrating rehearsals that I've ever participated in. Believe me when I tell you that playing original music is nothing like doing covers. We'll rehearse 16 bars of a song for an hour until it's just right. Feel, nuances, timing...........everything. It's made me better.

Some of you guys are pretty funny.

[porkpieguy]

I'd tell him you learn from the best...then ask, "Have you heard of Expert Village?"

[xweasel]

Depending on the style of music, playing like a drum machine could be desirable.

[Ray on the Drums]

Next time have them count while ya do paradiddles on their forehead and see what they think.

[wolvie56]

...............and therein lies the problem.

I don't get it. What problem? Being mistake free and in the pocket? Don't see this as a problem at all.

[rickthedrummer]

A metronome only provides a fixed, rigid, relentless pulse; therefore any metronome markings on sheet music cannot accurately communicate the pulse, swing, or groove of music: The pulse is often not regular;[32] e.g. in accelerando, rallentando; or in musical expression as in phrasing (rubato, etc.).

Some argue that a metronomic performance stands in conflict with an expressive culturally-aware performance of music, so that a metronome is in this respect a very limited tool. Even such highly rhythmical musical forms as Samba, if performed in correct cultural style, cannot be captured with the beats of a metronome.[33][34]

A style of performance that is unfailingly regular rhythmically may be criticized as being "metronomic."

Many notable composers, including Felix Mendelssohn, Richard Wagner, Giuseppe Verdi and Johannes Brahms, have criticised the use of the metronome.[


this series of even, perfectly quantized, 16th notes, is no more evocative of samba, than a metronome would be. In fact, this representation neglects what makes up the samba essence in the first place — the swing![33]

—Understanding the Samba Groove by Pedro Batista


The metronome has no real musical value. I repeat, the metronome has no value whatsoever as an aid to any action or performance that is musical in intention. [...] refer by analogy to the sister art of drawing. Graphic artists understand well enough the essential and generic difference that exists between mechanically-aided drawing on the one hand and freehand on the other. Similarly, musicians ought to distinguish between (1) the sort of timing that results from dull, slavish obedience to the ticking of a soulless machine, and (2) that noble swing and perfect control of pulsation which comes into our playing after years of practice in treating and training the sense of time as a free, creative human faculty.[36]

—The Amateur String Quartet by James Brown III


[...] using the metronome as a constant guide to ramp up the speed or to keep the rhythm. This is one of the worst abuses of the metronome. [...] If over used, it can lead to loss of your internal rhythm, loss of musicality, and bio-physical difficulties from over-exposure to rigid repetition[37]

—Fundamentals of Piano Practice by Chuan C. Chang


A good performance is so full of these minute retardations and accelerations that hardly two measures will occupy exactly the same time. It is notorious that to play with the metronome is to play mechanically - the reason being, of course, that we are then playing by the measure, or rather by the beat, instead of by the phrase. A keen musical instinct revolts at playing even a single measure with the metronome: mathematical exactitude gives us a dead body in place of the living musical organism with its ebb and flow of rhythmical energy. It may therefore be suggested, in conclusion, that the use of the metronome, even to determine the average rate of speed, is dangerous.[38]

—Daniel Gregory Mason


What is musical rhythm? Perhaps it is the difference between a performance that is stiff and metronomic in its strict adherence to the beat, and a performance that flows with elasticity and flexibility that emanates from the music itself. A rhythmically musical performance seems to take its cues from stylistic considerations, tempo, phrasing, and harmonic structure, as well as form. Sometimes we may not be exactly sure what makes a piece sound rhythmically musical, but we know it when we hear it.
It should not surprise us that some children do not know instinctively how to play musically. Many youngsters are surrounded by popular music that is rigid and inflexible in its rhythm, characterized by a relentless beat that is often synthesized or computerized. Even some CDs and MIDI disks especially designed for use with piano teaching materials can encourage students to be overly metronomic in their playing. In general, our students may not be familiar with the idea of subtle nuances of tempo, and may need help understanding this.[39]

—Jennifer Merry

I've said this too many times before: If a song starts at 80 BPM and ends at 83-84 BPM, nobody really cares, or even notices.

If anybody sees anyone bring a metronome to a bar/club to check the timing of a band, please let me know, because in almost 50 years of playing, I've never seen it.

[wolvie56]

A metronome only provides a fixed, rigid, relentless pulse; therefore any metronome markings on sheet music cannot accurately communicate the pulse, swing, or groove of music: The pulse is often not regular;[32] e.g. in accelerando, rallentando; or in musical expression as in phrasing (rubato, etc.).

Some argue that a metronomic performance stands in conflict with an expressive culturally-aware performance of music, so that a metronome is in this respect a very limited tool. Even such highly rhythmical musical forms as Samba, if performed in correct cultural style, cannot be captured with the beats of a metronome.[33][34]

A style of performance that is unfailingly regular rhythmically may be criticized as being "metronomic."


Many notable composers, including Felix Mendelssohn, Richard Wagner, Giuseppe Verdi and Johannes Brahms, have criticised the use of the metronome.[


this series of even, perfectly quantized, 16th notes, is no more evocative of samba, than a metronome would be. In fact, this representation neglects what makes up the samba essence in the first place — the swing![33]

—Understanding the Samba Groove by Pedro Batista


The metronome has no real musical value. I repeat, the metronome has no value whatsoever as an aid to any action or performance that is musical in intention. [...] refer by analogy to the sister art of drawing. Graphic artists understand well enough the essential and generic difference that exists between mechanically-aided drawing on the one hand and freehand on the other. Similarly, musicians ought to distinguish between (1) the sort of timing that results from dull, slavish obedience to the ticking of a soulless machine, and (2) that noble swing and perfect control of pulsation which comes into our playing after years of practice in treating and training the sense of time as a free, creative human faculty.[36]

—The Amateur String Quartet by James Brown III


[...] using the metronome as a constant guide to ramp up the speed or to keep the rhythm. This is one of the worst abuses of the metronome. [...] If over used, it can lead to loss of your internal rhythm, loss of musicality, and bio-physical difficulties from over-exposure to rigid repetition[37]

—Fundamentals of Piano Practice by Chuan C. Chang


A good performance is so full of these minute retardations and accelerations that hardly two measures will occupy exactly the same time. It is notorious that to play with the metronome is to play mechanically - the reason being, of course, that we are then playing by the measure, or rather by the beat, instead of by the phrase. A keen musical instinct revolts at playing even a single measure with the metronome: mathematical exactitude gives us a dead body in place of the living musical organism with its ebb and flow of rhythmical energy. It may therefore be suggested, in conclusion, that the use of the metronome, even to determine the average rate of speed, is dangerous.[38]

—Daniel Gregory Mason


What is musical rhythm? Perhaps it is the difference between a performance that is stiff and metronomic in its strict adherence to the beat, and a performance that flows with elasticity and flexibility that emanates from the music itself. A rhythmically musical performance seems to take its cues from stylistic considerations, tempo, phrasing, and harmonic structure, as well as form. Sometimes we may not be exactly sure what makes a piece sound rhythmically musical, but we know it when we hear it.
It should not surprise us that some children do not know instinctively how to play musically. Many youngsters are surrounded by popular music that is rigid and inflexible in its rhythm, characterized by a relentless beat that is often synthesized or computerized. Even some CDs and MIDI disks especially designed for use with piano teaching materials can encourage students to be overly metronomic in their playing. In general, our students may not be familiar with the idea of subtle nuances of tempo, and may need help understanding this.[39]

—Jennifer Merry

I've said this too many times before: If a song starts at 80 BPM and ends at 83-84 BPM, nobody really cares, or even notices.

If anybody sees anyone bring a metronome to a bar/club to check the timing of a band, please let me know, because in almost 50 years of playing, I've never seen it.

Wow. Okay. But a person that plays in near perfect time being in the pocket consistently can also play with style and feel, right. A metronome can't, but a person can.

[rickthedrummer]

Wow. Okay. But a person that plays in near perfect time being in the pocket consistently can also play with style and feel, right. A metronome can't, but a person can.

"But a person that plays in near perfect time being in the pocket consistently can also play with style and feel, right"


Right. They are not mutually exclusive.
It's just that a 'nome gives you no freedom.

If you are playing a gig and the guitar player takes a solo, gets a little adrenaline rush and speeds up a few BPM,and you have a click in your ear...............what do you do?

If you are playing with a click in your ear and stay on the click, the music drags. Everybody there will hear it.

If, on the other hand, if you go with him, speed up a couple of BPM, (Now I don't mean that you can let him/her run amuck), I doubt if anybody notices or cares.

Of course you want to be as close to the mark as you can be, but, at the same time, you have to let the music flow.

In all my years playing, there are 3 things I've never owned:

1) A metronome

2) A practice pad

3) A cowbell

[bongobro]

I appreciate you guys reading this and responding. As I mentioned in the original post, I'm not giving it a second thought and mentioned it here because I thought it was sort of amusing.

I've been doing this too long to react to opinion about my playing. I know I am good at what I do and I am comfortable with my style. After all of these years, I'm not going to change and there is no reason to do so. I've never had any trouble getting to participate in any projects and have never been "fired" from a band. I do what I do well. Steady timekeeper, good foundation in the rudiments, tasteful fills, occasional fancy solo when required. All of these things have kept me busy throughout the years.

To put it in context, the comment was made during a rehearsal of the original project that I'm currently involved with. These have been some of the most involved and, at times, frustrating rehearsals that I've ever participated in. Believe me when I tell you that playing original music is nothing like doing covers. We'll rehearse 16 bars of a song for an hour until it's just right. Feel, nuances, timing...........everything. It's made me better.

Some of you guys are pretty funny.

Ahh...playing original music...you nailed it when you said they've been "some of the most involved and at time frustrating rehearsals" that you've ever done. At the same time, consider it a challenge--and I think I know you well enough that you'll rise to it and do more than, if you'll pardon my sig...

[signia fan]

I have clicked on your link inthpkt, and I think I totally understand your headspace. It shows you have been playing a long time, probably played some of the songs a long time as well. I find myself in the same space especially when playing classic rock stuff I have played for years. I know what is required, I do it, I don't get overly excited about it, I keep the band from racing and dragging, and I make the song come out in a controlled way. So playing this way a lot can often come across as "playing safe". It is not bad playing, I recently saw Deep Purple, Ian Paice played safe all night, so much so, my wife even noticed and mentioned it before I did.
So maybe what your guys wanted was the exuberance of a drummer who has not played that long and stretches his limits, plays a little on the ragged edge. Narada Walden played this way when I saw Jeff Beck. A few times he lost his grip on the song, but it was cause he was going for it and it made the night for me, he became my hero that night.