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Thread: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

  1. #1

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    Default Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Well... I'm new to the forum and this is my first post. I'm at a point where I feel like incorporating some triggers into my acoustic setup. Have done lots of searching and am a little on the fence about what exactly to do. Hopefully those of you with experience here can help.

    I am in three bands that play different stuff. One does 80's hair metal, one classic rock, and the other is uptempo pop and rock from the 80's until now. The 80's gig has been my primary gig for the last 10 years, during which I've had two different acoustic rack kits. Love the acoustic looks and sensations, and hope to keep that with the new setup, but want it to be much easier to setup and move around. I picked up a teeny tiny Sonor kit with an 18" kick for the classic rock gig, and have loved it's ease of setup, and the feel. I have used that tiny kit in a couple big sound system venues, and though typical gigging PA systems, and it generally sounds pretty good. Just small. In terms of power, it kinda falls on it's face in the 80's band. Plus it looks silly.

    Current thinking is that since I'll need a broader range of sounds moving forward, that supplementing an acoustic kit with triggers and a module should be a consideration. The bands agree, but all want to keep the acoustic component (so a full e kit isn't an option).

    My favorite two things about that tiny kit are how low I can have the tom and snare, and the speed with which I can set it up.

    I'm looking at one of the Mapex Mydentity setups, with a 20" kick, plus a mounted 8" 10" and either 14 or 16" floor tom. Ideally I'd like to put triggers on each piece, and maybe add a couple more to act as a cowbell or tamborine. Hoping the Mapex shells are thin and light, but don't really know. My Pearl kick alone weigs twice what the entire Sonor setup does.

    I'm a bit hung up on which module to get though, and am really still on the fence about triggers. Leaning heavily towards Roland triggers. The modules on the table are a td11 and TD15. From what I've been able to find on the interweb, there are more kits that seem to match what I'll need. That is important to me because I am not real techy, and none of my bandmates are either. The least fiddling to plug the module in to the sound system, the better. I am sure Vex has kits that would do, but can't tell if the TD11 is able to take them.

    Finally, what will I need to prepare for
    ,once set up, triggering acoustic stuff. Should heads be muffled, or tighter tuned than normal, etc... Any tips or suggestions would really be appreciated here.

    I had a TD10 years back, and couldn't get it to work live. Just couldn't come to grips with it.

    So, that's my story. Am I on the right track?

    One last thing, have any of you used the Axis pedals with the triggers on them? That seems like a more reliable way to trigger than on the head to me, but there may be other pitfalls...
    Last edited by 0sparky0; 10-16-2014 at 01:05 PM.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    I'm in a couple different projects that range from classic rock to hair bands to newer urban R&B and the and I have converted my A kit to a completely triggered kit.

    You can play a really decent 80's processed hair band kit and with the push of a button go to something else like a really deep thumpy kick for that bass drum dominated dance stuff. I have around 20 kits built to fill different needs on different songs.

    My favorite thing is that you can easily put your E high hat (pad) on the right and play open handed. In retrospect, playing with your arms crossed seems dumb

    You do lose some dynamics on the drums and a lot of dynamics on the cymbals, but overall, it works well.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Thanks for the reply New Tricks. I wound up getting a TD11. Arrived yesterday. Also got APEX fro Vexpressions and loaded it up. Put the module on my crappy Yamaha ekit just to get a quick listen. Sounded pretty good. I am after a couple specific sounds though, that I didn't really hear through headphones. Am wondering how to most quickly find what I'm after. I am looking for some modern tom and floor tom sounds, similar to Trapt, or Theory of a Deadman. To my not great ear, they sound massive, almost like a kick drum. None of the vex stuff really had that same feel via headphones. Any tips on creating a kit with toms like that on a TD11 from anyone?

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Are you just playing thru headphones?

    The first thing I learned was that the sound thru headphones is very, very different than the sound thru a PA. And, different PA's have different sounds.

    I'm not sure what is on the TD 11. My main module is a TD 20. I just ran thru the choices until I found sounds that sounded like what I was looking for. I didn't do much detailed tweaking.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Quote Originally Posted by 0sparky0 View Post
    Thanks for the reply New Tricks. I wound up getting a TD11. Arrived yesterday. Also got APEX fro Vexpressions and loaded it up. Put the module on my crappy Yamaha ekit just to get a quick listen. Sounded pretty good. I am after a couple specific sounds though, that I didn't really hear through headphones. Am wondering how to most quickly find what I'm after. I am looking for some modern tom and floor tom sounds, similar to Trapt, or Theory of a Deadman. To my not great ear, they sound massive, almost like a kick drum. None of the vex stuff really had that same feel via headphones. Any tips on creating a kit with toms like that on a TD11 from anyone?
    The TD11 should work well. You can get Roland triggers for your acoustic kit, as they work seamlessly, since you said you aren't a techy. There are other triggers out there, Triggera Intriggs for example, that side mount on lug screws and wouldn't affect the drums much as acoustic drums.

    I would say triggering the kit is probably your best bet to get different sounds. Almost everyone does it now. Run both the acoustic and triggered sound through the PA and blend as needed. You can get a really great sound that way. I'm thinking of doing it with either my TD9 module for my snare and kick or get a TM2.

    In terms of the Roland sounds, I would try changing the setting for the drum to a larger size. I find the Roland sounds tend towards the high tuning warm range, but if you use the Oak Custom kit and assign larger drum sizes to each tom you might get what you want.

    You might want to search/post on Vdrum forum for more advice on the specific Roland settings.

    Good luck.
    Jesse

    1986 Tama Crestar - Lacquered Piano White
    2016 Roland TD-25K
    2015 Tama Starclassic B/B - Indigo Blue Sparkle

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Thanks again for the input!! Since it's been a while, I may as well post an update.

    I did start with the TD11, but immediately exchanged it for a TD15. A couple weeks ago I also ordered a Drumit5, which hasn't arrived yet. I got mesh heads for my Sonor Safari kit, plus added two BT1 triggers to the rack and one to the floor tom. I would have put one on my snare, but I couldn't get one to fit. The drums each got a Roland RT trigger.

    I also put a Ludwig Atlas mount on the kick, with one rod holding two cymbal arms, and one arm mounted to a floor tom leg. So the 4 piece mini kit, with all the stuff plugged in, turned out to be really cool and compact. The TD15 has been very easy to use in practice and at gigs. The Atlas stuff means I lose two cymbal stands (though it's not light, so added a fair amount of weight to what was a super light kit), but have what amounts to a 6 piece kit with two crashes, ride and HH, on a kick, 10" mounted, and 14" floor tom, with a 14"x5" snare. I still have to bring a snare and HH stand, but am loving the versatility of it all.

    I recently swapped the Intriggs for the RT head triggers, then had 1/4" jacks put in the shells by my local music store. I like that I could have two zones on the toms with the Intriggs.

    SO, this setup is now all electric. It's great to play, and pretty quick for setup. As an HUGE bonus, It's also allowed me to make an ultra transportable setup, using just a floor tom, with BT1's mounted on it, one cymbal, Roland kick pedal trigger, and a hi hat. I am using this for one of the band's weekly rehearsals. If I was only using open or closed HH positions, I wouldn't even need to take my HH stand!

    I have a second kit (Ludwig Classic Maple)that I'll probably use as a hybrid, but it may also wind up with mesh heads and triggers, because I am LOVING how quiet I can be while still slamming the crap out of the heads!! I can be setup fast, be able to play to a super quiet room, which we do often with one band, yet play huge, loud venues like we do with one of the others.

    There are some adjustments that I'm still working through, like how kits sound live vs. in ear, live instrument volumes, and how to hear stuff at shows. I tried acoustic cymbals at a small, quieter gig and wound up having trouble hearing using a feed from the board into the mix-in on the TD15, and kind of overpowered the band with cymbal noise at the same time. The electric cymbals really don't sound or play as great to me, but sure do solve that issue. Hoping the TwoBox module will close the authenticity gap a bit. The only real criticism I've heard from the band members was the lack of an authentic feeling snare. Again, the 2Box module hopefully will fix that. I've used variations of this setup since I got the module at gigs and have only heard positive comments from the crowds. One musician (who was just there by happenstance) commented how we sounded EXACTLY like the recorded stuff. That was reassuring, but also reinforced that most people hearing live bands really aren't as picky as the musicians are about our individual instruments. It's how it all works and sounds as a whole that matters.

    I've still got several acoustic kits, but almost can't imagine playing them anymore. May have to start buying mesh heads in bulk!!

    Having fun. Strongly encourage!

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Quote Originally Posted by 0sparky0 View Post
    Thanks again for the input!! Since it's been a while, I may as well post an update.

    I did start with the TD11, but immediately exchanged it for a TD15. A couple weeks ago I also ordered a Drumit5, which hasn't arrived yet. I got mesh heads for my Sonor Safari kit, plus added two BT1 triggers to the rack and one to the floor tom. I would have put one on my snare, but I couldn't get one to fit. The drums each got a Roland RT trigger.

    I also put a Ludwig Atlas mount on the kick, with one rod holding two cymbal arms, and one arm mounted to a floor tom leg. So the 4 piece mini kit, with all the stuff plugged in, turned out to be really cool and compact. The TD15 has been very easy to use in practice and at gigs. The Atlas stuff means I lose two cymbal stands (though it's not light, so added a fair amount of weight to what was a super light kit), but have what amounts to a 6 piece kit with two crashes, ride and HH, on a kick, 10" mounted, and 14" floor tom, with a 14"x5" snare. I still have to bring a snare and HH stand, but am loving the versatility of it all.

    I recently swapped the Intriggs for the RT head triggers, then had 1/4" jacks put in the shells by my local music store. I like that I could have two zones on the toms with the Intriggs.

    SO, this setup is now all electric. It's great to play, and pretty quick for setup. As an HUGE bonus, It's also allowed me to make an ultra transportable setup, using just a floor tom, with BT1's mounted on it, one cymbal, Roland kick pedal trigger, and a hi hat. I am using this for one of the band's weekly rehearsals. If I was only using open or closed HH positions, I wouldn't even need to take my HH stand!

    I have a second kit (Ludwig Classic Maple)that I'll probably use as a hybrid, but it may also wind up with mesh heads and triggers, because I am LOVING how quiet I can be while still slamming the crap out of the heads!! I can be setup fast, be able to play to a super quiet room, which we do often with one band, yet play huge, loud venues like we do with one of the others.

    There are some adjustments that I'm still working through, like how kits sound live vs. in ear, live instrument volumes, and how to hear stuff at shows. I tried acoustic cymbals at a small, quieter gig and wound up having trouble hearing using a feed from the board into the mix-in on the TD15, and kind of overpowered the band with cymbal noise at the same time. The electric cymbals really don't sound or play as great to me, but sure do solve that issue. Hoping the TwoBox module will close the authenticity gap a bit. The only real criticism I've heard from the band members was the lack of an authentic feeling snare. Again, the 2Box module hopefully will fix that. I've used variations of this setup since I got the module at gigs and have only heard positive comments from the crowds. One musician (who was just there by happenstance) commented how we sounded EXACTLY like the recorded stuff. That was reassuring, but also reinforced that most people hearing live bands really aren't as picky as the musicians are about our individual instruments. It's how it all works and sounds as a whole that matters.

    I've still got several acoustic kits, but almost can't imagine playing them anymore. May have to start buying mesh heads in bulk!!

    Having fun. Strongly encourage!

    Can you post up some pics?

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Quote Originally Posted by 0sparky0 View Post
    Thanks again for the input!! Since it's been a while, I may as well post an update.

    I did start with the TD11, but immediately exchanged it for a TD15. A couple weeks ago I also ordered a Drumit5, which hasn't arrived yet. I got mesh heads for my Sonor Safari kit, plus added two BT1 triggers to the rack and one to the floor tom. I would have put one on my snare, but I couldn't get one to fit. The drums each got a Roland RT trigger.

    I also put a Ludwig Atlas mount on the kick, with one rod holding two cymbal arms, and one arm mounted to a floor tom leg. So the 4 piece mini kit, with all the stuff plugged in, turned out to be really cool and compact. The TD15 has been very easy to use in practice and at gigs. The Atlas stuff means I lose two cymbal stands (though it's not light, so added a fair amount of weight to what was a super light kit), but have what amounts to a 6 piece kit with two crashes, ride and HH, on a kick, 10" mounted, and 14" floor tom, with a 14"x5" snare. I still have to bring a snare and HH stand, but am loving the versatility of it all.

    I recently swapped the Intriggs for the RT head triggers, then had 1/4" jacks put in the shells by my local music store. I like that I could have two zones on the toms with the Intriggs.

    SO, this setup is now all electric. It's great to play, and pretty quick for setup. As an HUGE bonus, It's also allowed me to make an ultra transportable setup, using just a floor tom, with BT1's mounted on it, one cymbal, Roland kick pedal trigger, and a hi hat. I am using this for one of the band's weekly rehearsals. If I was only using open or closed HH positions, I wouldn't even need to take my HH stand!

    I have a second kit (Ludwig Classic Maple)that I'll probably use as a hybrid, but it may also wind up with mesh heads and triggers, because I am LOVING how quiet I can be while still slamming the crap out of the heads!! I can be setup fast, be able to play to a super quiet room, which we do often with one band, yet play huge, loud venues like we do with one of the others.

    There are some adjustments that I'm still working through, like how kits sound live vs. in ear, live instrument volumes, and how to hear stuff at shows. I tried acoustic cymbals at a small, quieter gig and wound up having trouble hearing using a feed from the board into the mix-in on the TD15, and kind of overpowered the band with cymbal noise at the same time. The electric cymbals really don't sound or play as great to me, but sure do solve that issue. Hoping the TwoBox module will close the authenticity gap a bit. The only real criticism I've heard from the band members was the lack of an authentic feeling snare. Again, the 2Box module hopefully will fix that. I've used variations of this setup since I got the module at gigs and have only heard positive comments from the crowds. One musician (who was just there by happenstance) commented how we sounded EXACTLY like the recorded stuff. That was reassuring, but also reinforced that most people hearing live bands really aren't as picky as the musicians are about our individual instruments. It's how it all works and sounds as a whole that matters.

    I've still got several acoustic kits, but almost can't imagine playing them anymore. May have to start buying mesh heads in bulk!!

    Having fun. Strongly encourage!
    The 2box is a nice module and there are some nice mods that can make it even better. One you may have to look into is the hi hat mod. If you are using a Roland setup now, it wont work with the 2box module as is. There is also another mod to expand the memory using an external SD card, that will allow you to load more of you own samples and import others from vst programs like Superior Drummer, if you have it. I would recommend checking out the 2box forum, if you haven't already. Prepare to go down the rabbit hole
    ||Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. ~Confucius||

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    Roland TD-3 and TD-10 A to E Kit.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    I don't have any pics of the whole kit, but did have the mini setup as I used it for rehearsal this morning. I also got the 2Box today! Played through all the kits one time, but that's as far as I had time for. I can tell it's not nearly as intuuitive as the TD15, but the kits that don't have silly delays on them sound, well, like drums! Win for 2Box for sounds. Fail for ease of use compared to the TD15.

    I plan to get hte expansion from Jman, as well as the hi hat setup, as I only have a Yamaha and a Roland Hi Hat.

    Do any of you know off the top of your heads if there is a 'closed' hat setting in the 2Box that I could use with the BT-1, or even the Roland Hi hat?

    Do pictures have to be hosted somewhere in order to post here? I don't have an online host for pix.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Looks as if I just need to get a few more posts in prior to being able to post pics..

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Welcome to the dark side

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Guidance for electric acoustic setup

    Thank you.

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