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Thread: Muffling

  1. #1

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    Ive been looking at a lot of pictures of sets and just don't understand the use of moon gel and other muffling products. With all the great heads and drums we have today why muffle. Let them sing.Saw a picture of great set of drums with EC2 frosted and the guy had 2 moon gels on all toms and snare. I think its way over kill. Ok what do you guys and gals think?. Im a true believer in proper tuning is all you need.And yes I get some rooms need it but years ago we played to the room. Just want your thoughts on this. Also I will state I own moon gels. If you like then use Just want everyones take on it that's all. Also do any use other muffling like Evans, wallet, felt, etc
    Last edited by not him; 01-12-2015 at 06:06 AM.
    So whats so wrong with laughing. Some need to learn to laugh

  2. #2

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    I use pinstripes and emperors on my toms. No muffling. They sound great! I think it also has to do with the type of shell you have. I have birch shells and they like to sing. Maybe proper tuning is all you need. But I guess i'm not at that level of tuning yet. But I like my toms wide open.
    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyByNight View Post
    I use pinstripes and emperors on my toms. No muffling. They sound great! I think it also has to do with the type of shell you have. I have birch shells and they like to sing. Maybe proper tuning is all you need. But I guess i'm not at that level of tuning yet. But I like my toms wide open.
    I also play 100 % birch and love them. Just never have had the need to muffle
    So whats so wrong with laughing. Some need to learn to laugh

  4. #4

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    I agree with you completely. When I started out I always had this stuff all over my drums and now...nothing. It just hit me one day that I was (in my opinion) suffocating what the drums were designed to do.

    I also used to tune way, way low, thinking this was better sounding. And again, I realized that by NOT tuning to the shell, I was killing them. I think I could make cardboard boxes sound the way I used to tune. And yes, I know this is all personal preference. I'm now a fan of opening my kit up and let them ring, let them sing.

    Tex

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    I agree with you completely. When I started out I always had this stuff all over my drums and now...nothing. It just hit me one day that I was (in my opinion) suffocating what the drums were designed to do.

    I also used to tune way, way low, thinking this was better sounding. And again, I realized that by NOT tuning to the shell, I was killing them. I think I could make cardboard boxes sound the way I used to tune. And yes, I know this is all personal preference. I'm now a fan of opening my kit up and let them ring, let them sing.

    Tex
    Pretty much exactly the way I went too. Used to use Hydraulic heads WITH moon gel. 2 or 3 full piecs of gel on an HD Dry snare head. DEAD.

    Then one day it hit me. Let those babies RING! Coated heads is enough muffling for me. Other than kick drum, which I use the small foam ring on an Evans GMAD.

  6. #6

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    I have 3 kits---1) Emperors over Ambassadors (all black suede) on the toms, Aquarian High Energy over hazy on the snare, black suede Powerstroke 3 with center ported flame graphic reso on the bass 2)black suede Ambassadors over diplomats on the toms, black suede Emperor over hazy on the snare, Evans Emad 2 with black Pearl logo reso on the bass 3) Pinstripes on the toms, stock Mapex on everything else (for now). I use Evans E-rings to take out the ring, and nothing else---LET THEM SING

  7. #7

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    I love Moongel. Certainly better than tape stuck on heads. Usually I don't use it, however, there are certain times /songs that I want to deaden the ring.....especially on the snare. Moongel allows me to instantly and cleanly achieve that, and be able to go back to "wide open" when I want. I suppose if you always have them stuck on your drums, then you could get by with different heads & tuning. I consider Moongel more of "tool" to be used when needed and not a permanent solution.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  8. #8

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    For me it has to do with the style of music, I love the sound of open toms, but for some times of music I find it can get messy. With my band we do lots of tribalish stuff and I'll play a beat with entirely toms. I tune them so that they sound round and full, but don't hang around too long. On the other hand, I play cheap Swingstars for my toms and they are not made of the best wood. I am thinking about getting some booty shakers for my upper tom (on snare stand) as high or low, muffled or not, it kinda sounds like plastic.
    For live stuff, though, you have to have them open or else people can't hear them...
    Tama Swingstar 3 piece 1993 (refinished wine red)
    Ludwig Breakbeats (Azure Sparkle)
    1964 Ludwig Supra
    Old no-name Luan 12x8 tom/snare (refinished wine red)
    Mapex MPX 14"x5.5" snare (refinished in gloss black)
    Pearl Vision 14"x14" ft/snare (refinished wine red)
    Aquarian heads
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  9. #9

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    Also, I totally agree with your use of moongel, n2bluz, it should be used with control. you don't need 6 on one drum... maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.
    Tama Swingstar 3 piece 1993 (refinished wine red)
    Ludwig Breakbeats (Azure Sparkle)
    1964 Ludwig Supra
    Old no-name Luan 12x8 tom/snare (refinished wine red)
    Mapex MPX 14"x5.5" snare (refinished in gloss black)
    Pearl Vision 14"x14" ft/snare (refinished wine red)
    Aquarian heads
    14" Sabian HHX Stage Hats
    15" Meinl Extra Dry Thin Hats
    18" Meinl Vintage Trash Crash
    18" Wuhan China
    18" Thin Zildjian Crash
    18" Thin Zildjian Crash with rivets
    19" Meinl Extra Dry Thin Crash
    22" Istanbul Mehmet Legend Dark Ride
    23" Matt Bettis Dry Ride


  10. #10

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    I never muffle any of my drums. I like to let them ring out. With the right heads and tuning you can get rid of the nasty overtones without sacrificing the tone and resonance of the drum.
    Matt

  11. #11

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    In my opinion, MoonGels don't muffle. For me they take out some extra overtone ring, in some cases. Just a tweak, not a fix.
    Signature here

  12. #12

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    If playing with towels over your drums gets you the sound you want, do it. Drums are mostly eye candy these days anyway. By the time you are mic'd and eq'd, it doesnt matter.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bish View Post
    In my opinion, MoonGels don't muffle. For me they take out some extra overtone ring, in some cases. Just a tweak, not a fix.
    Yes that's says it better Bish but just thought Muffle was easier to understand for some of the new drummers.
    So whats so wrong with laughing. Some need to learn to laugh

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bish View Post
    In my opinion, MoonGels don't muffle. For me they take out some extra overtone ring, in some cases. Just a tweak, not a fix.
    I agree with you on this 100%.

  15. #15

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    IMO-If your drums are in a small, hard-walled room, low ceiling and no carpeting you need the gels-if in a big, open space, high ceilings, etc. then not at all.
    SONOR 6 pc Special Edition 3007's red maple, old Pearl Brass 14x6 FF snare, Yamaha Tour Custom maple 8 pc., Tama 4 pc., honey amber B/B, Ludwig Supralite chrome 14x6.5 steel snare, Paiste, Saluda & Zildjian
    Loaned out Slingerland upgraded 4 pc 1963 black, wrapped maple + 14" Pearl birch FT
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by not him View Post
    Ive been looking at a lot of pictures of sets and just don't understand the use of moon gel and other muffling products. With all the great heads and drums we have today why muffle. Let them sing.Saw a picture of great set of drums with EC2 frosted and the guy had 2 moon gels on all toms and snare. I think its way over kill. Ok what do you guys and gals think?. Im a true believer in proper tuning is all you need.And yes I get some rooms need it but years ago we played to the room. Just want your thoughts on this. Also I will state I own moon gels. If you like then use Just want everyones take on it that's all. Also do any use other muffling like Evans, wallet, felt, etc
    It's all boils down in personal taste. What sounds good to you may not appeal to others. There's so much leeway in drumming, there's nothing that states you have to follow certain rules or parameters.

  17. #17

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    I keep some moon gel in my stick bag. Just in case. Most of the ring that people don't like goes away simply by playing with other people.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  18. #18

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    I tend to use a wide open tuning, top and bottom heads the same and the shells will resonate for days. In some mic'd situations or small rooms it needs to be reigned in a little. A moongel, or a half of one can solve that quickly. It's much easier to start with an open drum and then add dampening, if needed. If you start with a heavily muffled head, there is no way to open them up without changing heads.

    I've had instances when I was using the ec2 heads. I tuned them at home, before a gig, then get to the club and find out they don't carry in that room and the toms are buried in guitars and bass all night.
    ||Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. ~Confucius||

    Pearl Masters Custom - Emerald Mist with gold hardware 12/13/16/22

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    Roland TD-3 and TD-10 A to E Kit.

  19. #19

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    When I first got my MCX that came with stock clear Ambassadors on top and bottom and I hated the sound they were horrible. I put a stick of moon gel on all the drums which help a lot then decided to go 2ply clear but still was using the moon gel. Then the EC2's came out OMG what a difference and starting using them and still am today. No more moon gel.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linchpin View Post
    I tend to use a wide open tuning, top and bottom heads the same and the shells will resonate for days. In some mic'd situations or small rooms it needs to be reigned in a little. A moongel, or a half of one can solve that quickly. It's much easier to start with an open drum and then add dampening, if needed. If you start with a heavily muffled head, there is no way to open them up without changing heads.

    I've had instances when I was using the ec2 heads. I tuned them at home, before a gig, then get to the club and find out they don't carry in that room and the toms are buried in guitars and bass all night.
    I had the exact same experience when I put EC2's on my Premier kit. They sounded great, but didnt cut through near as well in a live gig (unmic'd). I'll probably put them on my practice kit and switch to G2's.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  21. #21

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    I totally get why people do it.

    I think just about all of reasons why people do it have been covered, but I think some can do more with finances and inexperience.

    First, when a kid (young or old) buys a new mid-line drum set, the heads (especially on the toms) are exact same as the resos - thin and TONS of ring. A new drummer, after dropping a big bundle of cash on a new set, probably does not want to think spending even MORE money on new heads. After spending a lot of money on my first drum set, I would have looked at the store person cross-eyed if he told me it would be best to spend another $100 on new heads when the ones that came with it are brand new! It would be like buying a brand new car, then the salesman suggesting going ahead and getting new tires, floor mats, wiper blades, and an oil change. Why bother when it's brand new?

    I don't know about you, but experimenting with heads is an expensive venture. It's frustrating to buy new heads just to find out that you don't like the sound of them, so you do what you can in order to make it work.

    I think that if folks like to put 12 moon gels on their floor tom, so be it. Do whatever it takes to get yourself in the driver's seat and focus on your playing. People should notice your skill, not the amount(s) of tape, towels, moon gel, or whatever on your drums. The thing is, people's ears and tastes change over time. I've used everything from weather-stripping to duct tape on mine. If I would have let my drums ring and ring back in the day, I probably wouldn't have played them. I'm glad I did all of that crazy mess to my drums because it got me to play them.
    Last edited by porkpieguy; 01-21-2015 at 08:23 AM.

  22. #22

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    It's not that I don't want my drums to sing and ring... but when you're mic'ing your kit a lot of the sound board guys don't want that long overtoned ring in the mix. They ask if we can muffle the kit. I still feel my sound is bright and well toned but I use the moongel to kick the overtones that go through the mix to harshly.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpazApproved View Post
    It's not that I don't want my drums to sing and ring... but when you're mic'ing your kit a lot of the sound board guys don't want that long overtoned ring in the mix. They ask if we can muffle the kit. I still feel my sound is bright and well toned but I use the moongel to kick the overtones that go through the mix to harshly.
    Quoted for truth. There is only so much sonic space in the spectrum. If you close mic them, drums can take up a lot of that space with a long decay. It sounds good from the seat or even in isolation, but within the context of the mix, it can sound muddy or conflict with other sources. Big systems often use gates to electronically control the rate of decay. Short of that, some control at the source may be necessary, even for the most expertly tuned set of drums.

    This sonic space theory is also why bigger drums are back en vogue. A 10" and even a 12" can often sit in the same register as a lead vocalist. So a 13-16 rack to floor combo may be preferable behind some singers.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    Quoted for truth. There is only so much sonic space in the spectrum. If you close mic them, drums can take up a lot of that space with a long decay. It sounds good from the seat or even in isolation, but within the context of the mix, it can sound muddy or conflict with other sources. Big systems often use gates to electronically control the rate of decay. Short of that, some control at the source may be necessary, even for the most expertly tuned set of drums.

    This sonic space theory is also why bigger drums are back en vogue. A 10" and even a 12" can often sit in the same register as a lead vocalist. So a 13-16 rack to floor combo may be preferable behind some singers.
    I always defer to the sound man, no matter how good I think my wide open drums sound. If he wants them taped up we do it.

    It's never a wise move to pick fights with the sound guy.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    It's all boils down in personal taste. What sounds good to you may not appeal to others. There's so much leeway in drumming, there's nothing that states you have to follow certain rules or parameters.
    This.

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