Very angry Craigslist post

[Cdeleone]

This was an interesting one in the musicians section:

" quit playing for free!! !!! boycot open mics and jams..
[What] are some of you thinking?
Playing for free!! Open mics and open stage jams...
You're not going get noticed, you're not going to get discovered playing for free...
All your doing is giving bar owners the right not to pay musicians for our hard work, time and effort.. feeding you a line.Saying if you can bring a crowed next time,we'll pay you the next time.Bringing in people to drink in their bar isn't our responsibility and shouldn't be. If they don't have the customers to begin with? That should tell you something right off the batt..
Its time to stop the bull!!! You want to play for free? Do it Downtown on the mall., a d quit! Ruining the .music scene like you have already. Go back where you came from and do it there. If you want to play for a beer and a shot, and a tap on the shoulder great! Go home...
The music scene sucks here because of you people.
I for one! Want to get paid for my efforts and talent and time...
Boycott open mic and stages....."

[I missed this before today but had to edit due to language. Our forum rules state under Conduct / Language: DrumChat.com is a family-friendly forum and no swearing (including abbreviations or starred out words) or crude behavior is permitted. - Tom]

[MDK]

LOL, These knuckleheads post the same crap here every few months. I imagine it is probably some 20 something who has no other job and is just finding out that he needs to make real money to move out of Mom's house and blames others for his lot.

[8beat]

I understand the giving away work for free part. But I want to be able to just jam with a friend or two in a bar for free if I want.

[wired]

While i like open mics for meeting new players and showcasing skills and what it is we do.
The guy has a good point. You can't go to the bar and expect free drinks now can you.
Like the old saying goes "why buy the cow when the milk is free.."

The poster is also right when he says it's not our responsibility to bring the crowd. There are a lot of club owners if they can get away with it.. They would rather pay a 100 dollars to one person doing Karaoke than pay a full band 400 bucks.. Enough of this already. I've seen clubs doing everything from where you pay to them to play.. They giving you a percentage of the door take. Or they want you to sell so many tickets to your show ect..

If you don't band together and stop it then it is only going to get worse and worse. We don't spend hours and hours year after year working on our chops,learning songs and rehearsing..paying for gear,rehearsal space and everything else..Only to be ripped off..this is a bunch of crap.

[SpazApproved]

Our bar my band is the house band for doesn't play for free but we do do open band night.. if your band wants to play you can play any Thursday. If we like you we can schedule you to open for bands that come through as it's an actual venue not just a bar.

[jedi]

That poor guy need to lay off the coffee ! Back in the late 80's I was in a house band where we played 6 nights a week . Sunday was "jam" night . The owner would use that night to audition bands for the Monday nights we were off . They would come in and play a few songs .. not all night . If he liked them he would hire them to play for the Monday the following week . The band would get paid well for that Monday so there were always a few in each Sunday .

Out here the isn't what it use to be . Some of the clubs got sold and the new management would hire their brother-in-law's band or something like that . And they would play for free beer . Those places didn't stay open for too long but when they opened up again with new management they didn't want to pay what it use to pay . It had nothing to do with the open mic nights that were going around town .

[EddieV]

Some musicians have lives that dont work well with the commitment and energy it takes to play
in a steady band. But..They like to be able to stop in to popular venue with only there guitar or sticks and play 3 or 4 songs. The house band is paid for hosting....and the jammers often get a free drink chip or a special discount on food.

Jams are very popular...especially now a days when there's less and less bands and venues to play.

[jedi]

Some musicians have lives that dont work well with the commitment and energy it takes to play
in a steady band. But..They like to be able to stop in to popular venue with only there guitar or sticks and play 3 or 4 songs. The house band is paid for hosting....and the jammers often get a free drink chip or a special discount on food.

Jams are very popular...especially now a days when there's less and less bands and venues to play.

Yes !! I heard some really good musicians at these jams that have no interest in being in a band ... doing what we do . But man could these guys play !!

[crispycritters]

The guy that posted the rant overlooked the fact that open mic and jam nights are generally hosted by a musician - so in fact they can provide employment for musicians (the guy hosting the event)

A couple of friends of mine (drums and keyboards) are paid to host an open mic/jam session on Wednesday nights at a local bar in Plymouth. Although it is true that the bar gets more custom because of this - they get PAID for their efforts. If people decided to boycott open mic/free jam nights they would effectively reduce the potential employment of musicians as well as creating more live-music free venues.

This guy needs to go and boil his head. It might cool him down a little

[jgziegler]

I sometimes go to this open mic, 90% of the people there are the ones who play, was there last night, had one normally priced beer and left. Can't call that exploitation.

It is true the scene here in Prague is kinda bad. Lots of bad sound, really bad sound engineers you have to pay for (typically you make your money by charging at the door), and really some of the most disorganized venues in the world.

But the place that pisses me off the most is this jazz club which charges quite a high entrance for a jazz jam. I mean, I'm sure good musicians play there, but I'm not going to pay a lot to hear a jam. I just vote with my wallet and let other punters go...

[JoePasko]

My band plays a 'free' gig at a restaurant in Niskayuna, NY, on the third Thursday of each month. No monetary payment, but we put out a tip jar, and our CD's for sale.. and we get our drinks all night, and we each get a free meal (including our regular sound man). The food is awesome, good selection of craft beer on tap, quid pro quo. Not an open jam per se, although we have had friends jump in and sing or play a tune.

We have discussed quitting this gig before, but so far we always decide to keep it :

One reason is social. Guys all over the world play golf or go bowling after work, and then sit down to a meal somewhere (and usually have to pay for it). So we are engaging in our 'sport' (playing music), and then enjoy a good meal together while we chat about music, life, women, jobs, cars, etc. (I tell my fiancee, this is 'bowling night for musicians'.)

Other reason is functional. We also refer to it as our 'live rehearsal'. We practice acoustically in the bass players basement during the other 3 weeks of the month. This is our regular opportunity to work with our sound man, so that he can become familiar with our newer material, maybe work out some kinks with new PA equipment, or try a pickup on the fiddle instead of a mic, or something like that. It's a low key environment to vet out new songs... since we are not getting paid, for instance, we'll have no qualms about stopping a song if we really get messed up, and start it over if need be. I also use the opportunity to try out new and different percussion set-ups. Sometime there's a good crowd and they are digging the music. Other patrons just come to eat and talk, and pay little attention. Hey, whatever.

We do not take any other freebies, but this one we are keeping for the foreseeable future.. we do not feel exploited at all. personally I look forward to it each month... its my bowling night !

(comfortable 'stage' area, too) :

[IMG][/IMG]

[JoePasko]

sorry for rambling on like that.. I am a morning person ... my point is that each situation is different, u can't say every 'free gig' is bad

[TerryV81]

Just out of curiosity : how much do you guys make each time with the tip jar (tipping is not really customary in my country)?

[SpazApproved]

^I keep telling my band to do a tip jar but they wont do it.


maybe we should make a thread poll... how many bands use a tip jar...

[Ricardo]

Just out of curiosity : how much do you guys make each time with the tip jar?

Last month we had a bar gig that paid $600 for two sets of 1.5 hours each.
We split the $600 between our sound man and 5 players at $100 each.
In addition, the tip jar had $109 in it at the end of the night.

[MDK]

I have only used a tip jar once and that was in a downtown area during halloween week where the port authority asks local bands to essentially busk on the corner and gives 4 bands a spot to play. Is pretty cool as there are tours going on and it is low key. We made $85 one night and played for about 2 hrs, all I brought was my cajon and a splash cymbal. We had a blast!

Not sure I would want to use a tip jar in a bar/club though

[TerryV81]

Not sure I would want to use a tip jar in a bar/club though

For a free gig... why not?? Can't hurt to try I guess.

[inthpktplayer]

Although the delivery of the message was rather crude and for the most part unacceptable, I agree with his general concept. What really highlights this issue are the ads that you see on CL and other sites asking musicians to provide free entertainment for planned events. It's always couched in "get exposure, work for tips, etc.). Not acceptable. Those that do provide their time and talent for free do in fact exacerbate the situation.

[N2Bluz]

We've done tip jars before, but it works better if you have someone walk through the crowd with it. Many people don't like walking up to the stage to throw a buck in a jar in front of everyone. If we are at a paying gig in a bar that has waitresses, we don't do a tip jar out of respect. We remind the crowd to tip their waitresses and bartender. It helps build business relations with the bar.

Bottom line for me is this; the bands that put on a good show draw a following and keep the crowd having fun and spending money. They rarely have a problem booking gigs for a fair price. Don't worry about what other bands are/are not doing.....focus on marketing yourself and making your own product desirable.

[inthpktplayer]

Although the delivery of the message was rather crude and for the most part unacceptable, I agree with his general concept. What really highlights this issue are the ads that you see on CL and other sites asking musicians to provide free entertainment for planned events. It's always couched in "get exposure, work for tips, etc.). Not acceptable. Those that do provide their time and talent for free do in fact exacerbate the situation.

Oh, and not a big fan of the tip jar thing.

[Bridie]

Hi,
Our band has played a lot of free gigs, for charities.
I don't mind if I am helping someone in need.
But
A year ago we were asked to play on a bill of about 5 bands, for free, but we're promised travel, drinks and food for the night.
We got nothing
The older, more well known band, who played last, did, and we felt a bit cheated :(

When you take 100's of £'s worth of instruments and stuff to a bar, play for an hour and put your all into it, Then get no thanks even, it does make you think Pfffft!
Bridie

[piratemonkey124]

He spelled bat with 2 t's

[Cdeleone]

I wanted to reply to the guy, but chose otherwise. I agree with some of his points, but he is clearly a musician that can't get a gig anywhere (or a paying gig for that matter) and is upset about it.

[N2Bluz]

We'll do a free gig if it's for a legitimate charity or a good cause, otherwise it's too much work to haul equipment. It also tends to irritate the good bar owners that do pay a fair price. If someone is making money off the event, I expect to get paid.

I won't do a fund raiser for a specific person unless I know them or the situation. We got talked into doing one once for a guy that was in a motorcycle accident and ended up in a wheel chair. He couldn't work and his family was struggling to pay the bills. Then....at the event I see all these pictures of him posing with his $20k custom Harley (that he wrecked) and find out he had a good job but no medical insurance. I would LOVE to have a $20k bike.....but I can't afford it, because I spend $400+ per month on insurance to cover my family and make sure they're taken care of if something happens to me. I kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I felt he acted selfishly and irresponsible toward his family and was now asking others to bail him out.

[EddieV]

Tip Jars are very common here if it's a bar/club and there's no COVER CHARGE.

I don't have a problem with this policy or view.

If you go to a bar/club and enjoy a band - and it's free entertainment, and you are compelled to throw the band a buck or two because you like them, or more often because you have a song request... so be it.

If it's a more theatrical situation - like a casino, a concert venue, or a corporate gig, wedding or the like, or if there was a cover charge.....no tip jar.