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Thread: Jazz bass drum

  1. #1

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    I want some advice from fellows that play the smaller diameter bass drums and play more in the the be bop style. I know it is typical for the bass drum to have a melodic almost tone to it and it fits in with the sequence of toms. Something akin to having a floor tom but struck with a mallet rather than stick.

    Not long ago, for the first time ever, I pulled all the stuffing out to try. The resulting sound was...well...downright scary! Kind of a drawn out Bonggggg! You see I was raised on the dry thud bass drum sound of the 70's and 80's country.

    I love wide open toms but prefer to have the snare and bass more direct and focused as these are the bread and butter drums. So how does one get used to the jazzy bass drum sound?

    Questions...Is it OK to kinda split the difference and go for a melodic yet clipped bass sound? If so...Should I port, not port, KickPort, dampen the batter etc...?

    I have an 18" Fiberskyn I intend to install as a reso.

    Thanks

    all the best...
    Last edited by kay-gee; 02-08-2016 at 09:18 AM.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    So how does one get used to the jazzy bass drum sound?
    It takes awhile. I've been through this and it's quite an adjustment.

    Questions...Is it OK to kinda split the difference and go for a melodic yet clipped bass sound?
    A lot of it depends on what kind of jazz it is and what that band's expectations are. Some swing drummers play their bass drums wide open (often boingy) and others tone it down. I have mine like the latter. I don't like it too open but just open enough to match most swing gigs. Of course, some of that depends on the room you're playing too. If it's an loud room, you can muffle more.

    Also, do you bury the beater in the head? Not good for playing swing. It won't sound right (or feel right) on a real open kick.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    A lot of it depends on what kind of jazz it is and what that band's expectations are. Some swing drummers play their bass drums wide open (often boingy) and others tone it down. I have mine like the latter. I don't like it too open but just open enough to match most swing gigs. Of course, some of that depends on the room you're playing too. If it's an loud room, you can muffle more .
    ^^This ^^
    There is a guy locally who travels to New York a lot to play in the jazz clubs there . But He plays mostly the be bop style and not swing . He is an awesome jazz drummer ! He plays a 18" kick with fiber skin heads on both sides , wide open . He uses an old Gretsch pedal that looks like a Ghost Pedal but it's not . So he plays with a piano trio . He doesn't play the kick drum like most of us do .. four on the floor or a variation of that . He uses it mostly to accent (drop bombs) cymbal crashes and during bass solos to emphasize certain phrases . Time/groove is kept mostly between the hi hat , snare and ride cymbal . What I find amazing is that he uses the kick pedal beater to muffle the head ! He doesn't bury the beater . He hits the drum and lets it ring a little then he rests the beater on the head to cut/muffle the sustain . This takes time to learn ! LOL I tried it and it was a total disaster ! Keep in mind that he is not going boom boom boom boom , but more like boom....8 bars rest.....boom boom .......8 bars rest..boom . and so on .
    People like him are deep in the jazz . All he's ever had to do is jazz . He has got it down ! Me...? I wouldn't think of doing anything close to what he does ...LOL .
    I don't know if this helps .
    Rudy .

  4. #4

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    Thanks guys. It does help a lot. I don't think I'll ever reach the point where I can play in a true jazz band, but I intend to make it the course of study for the rest of my years.

    I don't bury the beater much. I tend to play heel down 90% of the time and the beater leaves the head after each strike.

    @Jedi. I notice a lot of jazz greats do that. The bass drum is used almost like another tom, high lighting here and there rather than as a repetitive time keeper. I guess that's the biggest challenge for me because in most most popular and dance style music, the bass drum provides more of a constant groove. In jazz, the groove comes from the ride and the hats.

    all the best...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Thanks guys. It does help a lot. I don't think I'll ever reach the point where I can play in a true jazz band, but I intend to make it the course of study for the rest of my years.
    If I can do it, you can. I started taking some lessons with a jazz expert, practiced hard then started sitting in at jazz jam sessions (most towns have one or two). It will be a little bit embarrassing at first but it's OK, you have to start somewhere. Little by little, you'll get more comfortable. You might not ever be that first call jazz drummer (I'm not) but you'll know enough to hold your own. After awhile, I was getting all kinds of gigs playing traditional swing and I am definitely not the best guy for this!

  6. #6

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    It just came to mind that some of those guys used felt strips on their bass drums . One in the front and one on the batter . Gibraltar still sells these . It's just a bit of muffling , I've never tried them myself . But I just remembered that some of the greats used them .
    Rudy .

  7. #7

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    For me I tune the bass drum (which is a 16" so that helps) for rock and then tune it up and until I get a clear, open tone, however high that is.
    As far as how it sounds I just play it tuned like this all the time and my ears adjusted fairly quickly.

    EDIT: I also have an aquarian SK1 on the batter and I think that helps because it is a single ply coated and tunes up well but still has that muffling ring that makes it great for rock. Good luck in your ventures with jazz, I just recently headed down that road myself.
    Last edited by lukesplat12; 02-08-2016 at 03:19 PM.
    Tama Swingstar 3 piece 1993 (refinished wine red)
    Ludwig Breakbeats (Azure Sparkle)
    1964 Ludwig Supra
    Old no-name Luan 12x8 tom/snare (refinished wine red)
    Mapex MPX 14"x5.5" snare (refinished in gloss black)
    Pearl Vision 14"x14" ft/snare (refinished wine red)
    Aquarian heads
    14" Sabian HHX Stage Hats
    15" Meinl Extra Dry Thin Hats
    18" Meinl Vintage Trash Crash
    18" Wuhan China
    18" Thin Zildjian Crash
    18" Thin Zildjian Crash with rivets
    19" Meinl Extra Dry Thin Crash
    22" Istanbul Mehmet Legend Dark Ride
    23" Matt Bettis Dry Ride


  8. #8

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    I don't care for a dry "thump" bass. I like a good attack, but also some ring (I.e. tone) to it. The best sounding bass (IMO) that I own is my old 22x14 Maxwin. I have a PS3 coated batter head and a Fiberskyn reso with a 5" port hole. I have a sheet of 1" thick high density pillow foam laid in the bottom of the shell. It lays nice & flat and contours to the curve of the shell. It comes in 16"x16" sheets (Walmart) and can be cut to 14"...so it fits firm between the heads. It provides a nice amount of control without killing the tone like the blankets and pillows I've tried. I tune the batter tight, then back it off until the beater doesn't "double dribble". The reso is fairly tight, but you can loosen it until you get the amount of tone & sustain you want. I higher pitch with some ring will help carry the bass sound out front if you play without mics.
    Last edited by N2Bluz; 02-08-2016 at 06:42 PM.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    I don't care for a dry "thump" bass. I like a good attack, but also some ring (I.e. tone) to it. The best sounding bass (IMO) that I own is my old 22x14 Maxwin. I have a PS3 coated batter head and a Fiberskyn reso with a 5" port hole. I have a sheet of 1" thick high density pillow foam laid in the bottom of the shell. It lays nice & flat and contours to the curve of the shell. It comes in 16"x16" sheets (Walmart) and can be cut to 14"...so it fits firm between the heads. It provides a nice amount of control without killing the tone like the blankets and pillows I've tried. I tune the batter tight, then back it off until the beater doesn't "double dribble". The reso is fairly tight, but you can loosen it until you get the amount of tone & sustain you want. I higher pitch with some ring will help carry the bass sound out front if you play without mics.
    Very compelling...

    Thanks for the details.
    Signature here

  10. #10

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    If you use an Aquarian Super kick 1 and a regular Ambassador type reso with no muffling, it will have a nice controlled sustain. Maybe a little too controlled for some jazz situations or venues, but it's a place to start.

    Also, striking point of the beater can affect sustain. Experiment.
    Life's too short to play the same solo twice. Improvise!

  11. #11

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    So. I put a Fiber Skyn reso on with a Kick Port FX. It's small (about 2" wide) I put a small pillow in also but backed it up against the batter.

    Getting a really nice sound now although probably not real jazzy. Truth of the matter is, when I play with others it's usually rock, pop, country etc... so I need something rootsy.

    It sounds like a "bass" drum now. If you didn't know you might think it was a 20 or a 22.

    Think of plucking a note on a bass but palm muting the string at the bridge. A nice tone but a quick decay.

    all the best...

  12. #12

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    My philosophy is no muffling at all, none of the drums. Try and get a natural sound out of your drum. Let them resonate to its fullest ability. You can only do so much with the equipment we have, that's why they make drums out of different materials and different woods. They all resonate differently. I use a e mac head on my 16" bop kit. This head has the ability to take the boing or higher sounds out of the head. You can get an idea of how my 16" bass drum sounds.

    https://youtu.be/t5apceTeQ4I
    Last edited by Jackie; 03-15-2016 at 05:02 PM.

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