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Thread: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

  1. #1

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    Question DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Hi friends, I've replaced many bad gear but now I'm planning to replace my 14x5,5" Snare drum by PDP, it sounds awful and it avoids to get tuned in the full range cause it has some bad workmanship.


    I already have some favourites which are:
    1.) DW Black Nickel over brass
    2.) DW collectors maple
    3.) Ludwig Supraphonic



    I like them all but I've heard some things about single cases of bad workmanship on all of them, less or more worse so if I rank them from not too bad to awful workmanship they'd have if it would be true it is:

    1.) DW Collectors Maple: no issues known until now but some people say it wouldn't be versatile.

    2.) DW Collectors NOB: I've heard about 3 cases of the same issue I've with my PDP.

    3.) Ludwig Supraphonic: I've heard it will get rusty and the strainer (?) would be that awful that you need to change it.






    I absolutely like the sound of all of them and the Luddy is really making me excited but I'm worried about the rusty and strainer-issue, I'm absolutely untalented when it comes to crafting and it would be super-annoying to have a rusty snare.



    How bad are the Luddy-issues from the new ones (which you can find in store)?

    Have you played hiphop, jazz (brushes and sticks) rock/pop and metal with one of the above mentioned snares?



    I'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  2. #2

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    I am a bit of a ludwig junky now.. and would go that route. As far as rusty.. Yes if you play in the rain or get it wet and don't dry it.. but you can find 100's of 40 year old ones for sale on ebay and CL that aren't rusty.. Just like any gear it comes down to how you take care of it..

  3. #3

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Ludwig Supraphonics have chrome plated aluminum shells and are known for pitting; the chrome can separate from the shell over time. The only thing that that could rust on them would be the lug screws/washers, and hoops, not sure about the throw off and butt plate.

    Like Icetech said, there are a ton of them on the used market, they haven't really had any major changes over the years, and the newer drums sound just as good as the older ones. Parts are easy to be find and there is a wealth of information on them out there on the net ...

    I have no experience with the two DW snares you mention ...

  4. #4

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by Icetech View Post
    I am a bit of a ludwig junky now.. and would go that route. As far as rusty.. Yes if you play in the rain or get it wet and don't dry it.. but you can find 100's of 40 year old ones for sale on ebay and CL that aren't rusty.. Just like any gear it comes down to how you take care of it..
    Ok, that makes me feel better.



    "Ludwig Supraphonics have chrome plated aluminum shells and are known for pitting; the chrome can separate from the shell over time. The only thing that that could rust on them would be the lug screws/washers, and hoops, not sure about the throw off and butt plate.

    Like Icetech said, there are a ton of them on the used market, they haven't really had any major changes over the years, and the newer drums sound just as good as the older ones. Parts are easy to be find and there is a wealth of information on them out there on the net ...

    I have no experience with the two DW snares you mention ..."


    I guess it is called pitting what they mean.
    How bad is it?

    And what's about the strainer?
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  5. #5

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by skills View Post
    I guess it is called pitting what they mean.
    How bad is it?

    And what's about the strainer?
    Pitting/flaking varies from drum to drum. Many can be found with minimal to none. If this bothers you, and you don't mind an 8 lug snare, then check out the Ludwig Acrolite. Same shell as the supra with 8 lugs instead of 10 and an oxidized finish that doesn't pit/flake.

    If you mean the standard P85 then go here:

    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...ner-35062.html

  6. #6

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    If your looking at both wood and metal snares I highly suggest you try out a Yamaha Absolute maple hybrid snare and a Pork Pie Big Black Brass. These 2 snares are very versatile and very hard to beat IMO. I have not heard any issues with either though they are both kind of new compared to the ones you have listed.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  7. #7

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    If your looking at both wood and metal snares I highly suggest you try out a Yamaha Absolute maple hybrid snare and a Pork Pie Big Black Brass. These 2 snares are very versatile and very hard to beat IMO. I have not heard any issues with either though they are both kind of new compared to the ones you have listed.
    Those are both unavailable here.
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  8. #8

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by dangermoney View Post
    Pitting/flaking varies from drum to drum. Many can be found with minimal to none. If this bothers you, and you don't mind an 8 lug snare, then check out the Ludwig Acrolite. Same shell as the supra with 8 lugs instead of 10 and an oxidized finish that doesn't pit/flake.

    If you mean the standard P85 then go here:

    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...ner-35062.html
    Good advice from dangermoney re: the Ludwig Acrolite snare. And, if you are looking for the 14x6.5 size, the re-issue Acrolite in that size has 10 lugs. It is a great snare and,IMO, one of the absolute best in its price range.

    Regarding the Ludwig P-85 strainer, they are not the best. Some work fine, though. You can easily replace with the Ludwig P-86 strainer for around $40 dollars.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by ludleg View Post
    Good advice from dangermoney re: the Ludwig Acrolite snare. And, if you are looking for the 14x6.5 size, the re-issue Acrolite in that size has 10 lugs. It is a great snare and,IMO, one of the absolute best in its price range.

    Regarding the Ludwig P-85 strainer, they are not the best. Some work fine, though. You can easily replace with the Ludwig P-86 strainer for around $40 dollars.
    We have commonly the black acrolite and rarely a silvery not shiny finished acrolite available.

    Do I need a drilling machine or something like that?
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  10. #10

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by skills View Post
    Do I need a drilling machine or something like that?
    No, the P86 mounts in the same holes as the P85 ...
    Last edited by dangermoney; 03-28-2016 at 03:11 PM.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by dangermoney View Post
    No, the P86 mounts in the same holes as the P85 ...
    And how to remove the P85?
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  12. #12

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by skills View Post
    And how to remove the P85?
    Maybe you won't need to as most of them function just fine. I would try it first and consider replacing it only if you have trouble with it ...

  13. #13

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    The collectors maple snare would be my choice. I have 2. One is a 6.5x14 vlt, the other is a 5.5x14 10 and 6 (reinforcement rings). My favorite is the deeper vlt snare. It has a really wide tuning range, and sounds great at lower tunings. You can also get some pretty nice finishes on the collectors snare.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by dangermoney View Post
    Maybe you won't need to as most of them function just fine. I would try it first and consider replacing it only if you have trouble with it ...
    Ok.


    @bongos:
    I bet those vlt's are nice too but they are about 1,5K, the Collectors Maple is around 700+.




    To the guys who own a Supra:

    1.) pitting =changed and worse sound?
    2.) if yes, is there any international available way to prevent it?
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  15. #15

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Mine shows some pitting but it's close to 40 YEARS Old. So what?!! If you're still playing in 40 years, buy another one.
    In all that time I've never had a single strainer issue. Just a dab of lube every so often and good to go!

    all the best...

  16. #16

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Mine shows some pitting but it's close to 40 YEARS Old. So what?!! If you're still playing in 40 years, buy another one.
    In all that time I've never had a single strainer issue. Just a dab of lube every so often and good to go!

    all the best...
    Thank you. For sure I'm playing in 40 years.
    But I wonder what "a dab of lube" means.
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  17. #17

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by skills View Post
    To the guys who own a Supra:

    1.) pitting =changed and worse sound?
    2.) if yes, is there any international available way to prevent it?
    Here's my '73 Supraphonic. Minimal pitting and the P85 works like a charm.

    Personally, I don't think that pitting will affect the sound. Probably, the best way to prevent it is to take care of the drum although it will depend upon how well the chrome was applied to the shell at the factory ...



    Here's my '79 Acrolite. The P85 works like a charm on this one also:

    Last edited by dangermoney; 03-29-2016 at 06:47 AM.

  18. #18

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by dangermoney View Post
    Here's my '73 Supraphonic. Minimal pitting and the P85 works like a charm.

    Personally, I don't think that pitting will affect the sound. Probably, the best way to prevent it is to take care of the drum although it will depend upon how well the chrome was applied to the shell at the factory ...



    Here's my '79 Acrolite. The P85 works like a charm on this one also:



    Wow, they look great!
    I always take care for my instruments.
    Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (CR):
    20,12,10 + 14x5,5" PDP Maple/Bubinga snare
    Tama hardware
    Remo drumheads
    Paiste cymbals

  19. #19

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Mine shows some pitting but it's close to 40 YEARS Old. So what?!! If you're still playing in 40 years, buy another one.
    In all that time I've never had a single strainer issue. Just a dab of lube every so often and good to go!

    all the best...
    Same here. And my Supra is 45 years old!

  20. #20

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by skills View Post
    Thank you. For sure I'm playing in 40 years.
    But I wonder what "a dab of lube" means.
    A "dab of lube" means a small amount of lubrication.

  21. #21

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    For the hoops just apply some car polish and buff them on a regular basis. The polish has wax in it that will isolate the chrome from any moisture that can cause it to oxidize.

    For the tuning rods I just clean them in a mild solution of dish soap, a natural degreaser, and warm water. Rinse and dry them thoroughly. I usually let the rods soak in the warm water/dish soap solution in a bowl overnight.


    When the tuning rods are clean apply a light lubricant to the threads and screw them into the lugs. I usually use Vasoline, and I tighten and loosen the rods a couple of times to make sure that the lubricant is distributed on the receiving nut that is inside the lug.

    If you follow these steps on a fairly regular basis then rust and pitting shouldn't be a problem on any metal parts.

    The pitting that you're asking about on the Ludwigs is just the end result of a bad chemical bond between chrome and some aluminium alloys. The Ludwigs are sometimes prone to that. I've been playing Ludwig snares for over 50 years and I've seen several Supras that showed this problem. It doesn't affect the sound and it doesn't harm the metal of the shell. It just looks bad. You can strip the chrome off of the shell and clear coat the aluminium but that is a lot of work. I've got 3 Supras and 2 Acrolites now and two of the Supras are pitted to an extent. Both are over 30 years old and they both still function perfectly. The unpitted Supra is a later model and I think that Ludwig worked out the plating problem on the more recent ones.

    I've always had great luck with Ludwig snares. They record great, the most recorded snare drum in history, and they sound great live. I would advise upgrading to a P86 strainer however. For some reason Ludwig still puts the outdated P85 on most of it's premium snares.

    If you want an aluminium snare then the Pearl Sensitone series is also a great way to go. They're cheaper than the Supras but they have a great sound and like all Pearl drums they're well made. Good luck with your search. You've got a lot to choose from8^).

  22. #22

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    Default Re: DW Collectors Snares vs. Ludwig Supraphonic

    Quote Originally Posted by markdrum View Post
    If you want an aluminium snare then the Pearl Sensitone series is also a great way to go. They're cheaper than the Supras but they have a great sound and like all Pearl drums they're well made. Good luck with your search. You've got a lot to choose from8^).
    I was just looking at those last night! They seem quite nice and a great bargain. I think I saw one on the Bay for around $150.

    To the OP, I would say a brass snare is the first I'd go for. I use a Taye Metalworks 14x5 and LOVE everything about it. They go for around $225. An aluminum snare is a good backup, I had a Black acrolite and sold it. Warm, dark, and lower volume. The maple snare is nice but I personally think you should go big on it - like 7 or 8 inches and tune it low. My Ayotte took a lot of tinkering to find a sweet spot. Cheers on the search, be sure to share pictures!
    A simple, elegant design is good engineering.

    Axis | Ayotte | Evans | Gibraltar | Ludwig | Pro-Mark | Remo | Roc-N-Soc | SKB | Taye | Vic Firth | Whitney| Yamaha | Zildjian

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