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Thread: Pedal ergonomics

  1. #1

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    Default Pedal ergonomics

    Now I don't know if the term I used is correct but what I mean is with regard to how your feet, legs, thighs and sitting positions affect the comfort and ergonomics of playing on'es kit.

    Are there rules of thumb? General guidelines? I mean I've laid out my kit in the best way that I can waist up. But down below, it's sometimes a struggle. I sometimes have my feet inside of my hips with my knees jutting outwards. It is very awkward and kills speed and timing. sometimes I find myself left hi hat oriented such that my whole right leg is dead straight to the kick pedal and kick drum and my sternum dead on to the snare. With that, it kills the whole right side aka ride-side and floor tom side coz now I have to twist my back to get to 'em.

    Is there a neutral position? Is there a correct angle to both my legs-to-hihat-and-to-kick?

    Am i even making sense???

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Pedal ergonomics

    from MilesMitchell


    Kit set-up efficiency

    After seeing that thread on how to properly set up a kit I thought I'd share this post from our very own Ptrick that I saved a couple years back. I found it very informative and I'm glad I ended up saving it since cymbalholic went down and it appears all that knowledge is unfortunately gone.

    Great topic. There have been some good points made. Many of you here know I am a professional drummer and also instructor. Now is a good time to let you know how I got there. I have a muscle condition that makes my muscles tense up into painful spasms if they are overused or used incorrectly. It was a frightening diagnosis because they told me (at 22 years old) that I would not be able to do things that required much repetition (ie drums). I wouldn’t have it…I had to play…no choice…So I had to learn a new way because the way I was doing it was damaging my body. I discovered the Moeller method, and that allowed me to play for longer periods much more relaxed. I studied the methods of Jim Chapin and Freddie Gruber, and got a chance to ask Jim himself a few different times for clarification on certain things. Ok, so off the soapbox. I now am an instructor because of my condition…I realized these methods and techniques are good for everybody, and something that was lacking in drum instruction all over (consequently then Weckl comes out with his series of videos on it…) I now do clinics and workshops on setup and techniques that are efficient and healthy for the body, which also increase speed, accuracy, and stamina.

    These tips I’m going give where all arrived at also with the help of several PHD Physical Therapists in San Francisco involved in Physiology, Kinestetics, and Anatomy (they were nice enough to help me along the way using video’s and demonstrations).

    Let me preface this all by stating that while everybody is different and everyone has different preferences and habits, the laws that rule our body are NOT. You cannot fight the way your body is built and the way it is supposed to function. As pointed out, setup will be different for every person because of different body types, but the guidelines will all be the same.

    I’ll go in the order I set up my kit, basically from the ground up.

    IMPORTANT: Setup your kit IN FRONT OF A MIRROR. You will not be able to see the angles of your arms, legs and observe your posture unless you can SEE YOURSELF. Practicing in front of a mirror is also great to do to see when you are tensing up.

    1) Seat height. As mentioned, this one is something many people mess around with. The basic guideline is to have the angle of your legs AT LEAST 90 degrees (more is ok, less is not). This is the most efficient position for sitting, and for drumming an angle slightly above 90 degrees is preferred because you are raising your legs up and down. Too low and you are putting too much pressure on your hip flexors, too high and you are straining your lower back and hamstrings.

    2) Stance: This is SUPER IMPORTANT! I’m amazed how many players do not obey this basic rule…Your stance should be shoulder width apart, with your feet the SAME DISTANCE apart and the same distance out from your body. Your feet should also point slightly out like you are making a wide “V” with your feet. The mistake most people make is putting their bass drum directly in front of them and then moving their hi hat towards them to get it closer. This creates an awkward stance to say the least, and is horrible for your lower back (your muscles are all out of alignment) and does not promote balance.

    3) Sit up straight! With your stance at shoulder width apart, you should feel the weight over your pelvis. It is crucial to maintain a curve in your lower back lumbar area and not to slouch. People slouch to relax, not realizing that it stretches the muscles of your back tremendously, and can result in the muscles becoming used tot his, and you will always retain that posture, even while standing…Ever seen an old person? I looked like that at 20 because of horrible posture. Also, poor posture makes your heart and lungs work harder because it collapses your ribcage.

    4) Pedals: Your pedals should be exactly where your feet are when you have your stance at shoulder width apart and your legs at 90 degrees. Any other position and you are working too hard, and you have thrown off your center of balance.

    5) Snare Drum: Think of this as your steering wheel. It has to be equally accessible with both hands, and directly in front of you. I will now break it down to matched and traditional grips, because the positions are different.

    Matched: With your arms relaxed by your side, raise up your arms to 90 degrees. With your wrist completely straight and in line with your arm, lower your arms JUST A HAIR from 90 degrees. This is your snare height. How far away from your body is accomplished by having the stick tips right in the center of the drum with your arms right next to the side of your body. The most powerful position in striking a drum is with your wrist straight in line with your arm, and 90 degrees, basically with the stick parallel to the ground. If you have your arms at 90 degrees, your wrist straight, and your palms down, you should notice that the angle the stick sits in your hand is NOT flat. It is slightly angled towards your body. Your snare angle should accommodate this, and it should be one or tow clicks towards you. IF you play with your snare flat, you are sacrificing the last part of your stroke because your wrist will have to hit the drum at an angle, which is not healthy. If you angle your snare extensively, you actually go TOO FAR and put your wrist in a very dangerous position (flexed upward). When you are at the optimal point of contact (wrist straight) your body can absorb the shock the best.

    Traditional: With your arms relaxed by your side, raise both hands up to 90 degrees. You will notice that the stick in your left hand will be at about a 45 degree angle. You will need to adjust the snare to this exact angle. With your wrist straight and your arms and 90, this is your snare height. Again, how far away is determined by the stick tips being dead in the center of the drum with your arms right next to your side.

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Pearl Prestige World Series WLX 1988
    Tama Swingstar 1983
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch) 2007
    Ludwig Acrolite Snare 1976
    Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14" 2021
    Pearl Sensitone Elite Aluminum 5.5" and 6.5" Snare
    Pearl COB Custom Deluxe [Gladstone] (75-76) Snare
    Love Drum Co. Hammered Steel 5.5" Snare
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste
    Accent 8"

    Paiste Signature:
    6", 10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18",19", 20" Full Crash
    22" Symphonic Med-Heavy (use as a Ride)

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride
    16" Crash
    8",10" Splash

    Paiste 2oo2 Big Beat:
    15" Hi-Hats
    19", 20", 21" Big Beat Multifunctional

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    16" Crash
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China

    Paiste Alpha (original Swiss made):
    12" Splash

    Paiste PST7:
    Medium
    16", 18" Crash
    20" Ride
    14" Hi-Hats

    Sabian:
    XS20 18" China
    AA 14" Fusion Hi-Hats


  3. #3

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    Default Re: Pedal ergonomics

    This is an excellent subject for a thread. I have very poor body posture at the kit. Since I started working in outside sales again, I now spend a lot of time behind the wheel. It has really messed with my back, legs & neck.....which I noticed at last Friday's gig. I had to sat and up and stretch between every 4th or 5th song.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  4. #4

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    When I was a kid I was taught something and I still do it to this day.

    Set your drums to work for you and not you work to play your drums. I ALWAYS start by sitting at my stool with NO drums in front of me.

    I first sit as comfortably as possibly with my feet in the shape of a V as I would sit any other time. I then remove my shoes as I'm sitting there and grab my pedals and place them where my shoes are.

    I then attach the bass drum to that pedal and the hi-hat and then place the snare drum in the center of the two very comfortably.

    After that I build the drumset around this. But this is how I ALWAYS start.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    This is an excellent subject for a thread. I have very poor body posture at the kit. Since I started working in outside sales again, I now spend a lot of time behind the wheel. It has really messed with my back, legs & neck.....which I noticed at last Friday's gig. I had to sat and up and stretch between every 4th or 5th song.
    During the later sets, I will stand up between songs, every third song or so.
    I stand for a few seconds so I can get normal blood flow.
    It helps with stamina.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  6. #6

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    I have what I would call a genetic physical deformity. My right foot is toed out more than my left foot....like at a 30* angle from straight ahead. As a result, my right heel is never in-line with the kick pedal. It always hangs off the snare side edge. This tends to make the pedal and bass try to rotate or skew sideways since my foot force on the board is never applied straight into the head. It also makes it almost impossible to play heel down.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  7. #7

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    I find that knee distance and width are hyper crucial.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    I have what I would call a genetic physical deformity. My right foot is toed out more than my left foot....like at a 30* angle from straight ahead. As a result, my right heel is never in-line with the kick pedal. It always hangs off the snare side edge. This tends to make the pedal and bass try to rotate or skew sideways since my foot force on the board is never applied straight into the head. It also makes it almost impossible to play heel down.
    Interesting to note the someone else has a physical issue, too. I'll never be able to play pedals (either bass drum or high hat) anything like 'normally' because of lack of strength and coordination due to childhood paralysis. It's getting to the point where I am having serious trouble walking at all.

    I wonder if anyone else here has this kind of challenge, and if so, how you go about working around it...
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    I stand for a few seconds so I can get normal blood flow.
    It helps with stamina.
    I do the same thing............helps keep the back right

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpazApproved View Post
    When I was a kid I was taught something and I still do it to this day.

    Set your drums to work for you and not you work to play your drums. I ALWAYS start by sitting at my stool with NO drums in front of me.

    I first sit as comfortably as possibly with my feet in the shape of a V as I would sit any other time. I then remove my shoes as I'm sitting there and grab my pedals and place them where my shoes are.

    I then attach the bass drum to that pedal and the hi-hat and then place the snare drum in the center of the two very comfortably.

    After that I build the drumset around this. But this is how I ALWAYS start.
    ^This! No matter how many drums I use, I always start out with just the throne and drop my feet down and place the pedals directly under them and build the kit around the placement of my feet.

    1. Hihats
    2. Snare
    3. Kick(s)
    4. Ride






    As far as the placement of the rack toms and extra cymbals, I keep a pretty tight radius and use the hihats and the ride as the "outer fringes" of my comfort zone.


  11. #11

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    Ya! Gotta agree with Spazz's post. that's how ya set a kit up!! Thanks to Rich for his awesome pictures too, they're worth 1000 words!!!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkyruss View Post
    Ya! Gotta agree with Spazz's post. that's how ya set a kit up!! Thanks to Rich for his awesome pictures too, they're worth 1000 words!!!
    Thanks funkyruss!!

  13. #13

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    I haven't taken the time to read the previous posts, so it's probably already been said. I'll say it anyway.

    Sit on your throne with no drums. Your knees should be bent at 90 degrees or LESS. Place your feet where you feel comfortable. That's where your pedals go. Build your kit around that foundation. Can't make it too much simpler than that.

  14. #14

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    Knee to knee distance... what's optimal?

    Should the inside of your knee be almost touching the snare?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiCeeAddict View Post
    Knee to knee distance... what's optimal?

    Should the inside of your knee be almost touching the snare?

    I can't tell you an exact but yeah my 14" snare for me personally sits fairly close to both legs. But I'm only 5'6" I'm a little guy.

    Again it's what is MOST COMFORTABLE for me.

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Pedal ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by GuiCeeAddict View Post
    Knee to knee distance... what's optimal?

    Should the inside of your knee be almost touching the snare?
    I'm short, (5'9") with an inseam of 28". My knees (thighs) don't touch any part of the snare due to where my pedals are positioned.


  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiCeeAddict View Post
    Knee to knee distance... what's optimal?

    Should the inside of your knee be almost touching the snare?
    Inside of my right knee brushes the snare.

  18. #18

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    I have a tricky situation with my pedals and mostly it is due to my hats.

    My hat pedal is in the inner most left as I need my hi hat cymbals to be as close to the snare as possible. Putting the double pedal footboard on that spot would already be too far for the hat footboard. As such, I made my hat footboard on this innermost spot and the double pedal left of that.

    Problem now is , the hat footboard is a bit under the snare drum now. Gives quite a bit of an uncomfortable crunch on my left glute which in turn leads to lower back discomfort.

  19. #19

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    I seem to be having a hard time with my back as of lately. Since February, I've been spending a LOT of time behind the wheel of my company truck (2011 Chevy Siverado). The seat is horrendously uncomfortable on my lower back. Since then, I've noticed pain in my lower back after playing the first 1hr set. I notice my upper body is always "hunched over" behind the kit. Maybe I'm sitting too high, but my legs are fairly long. Maybe I should try raising my toms and cymbals. Also, my Gibraltar round top throne is just not cutting it. I'm thinking of ordering their oversized motorcycle throne with a backrest.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    I seem to be having a hard time with my back as of lately. Since February, I've been spending a LOT of time behind the wheel of my company truck (2011 Chevy Siverado). The seat is horrendously uncomfortable on my lower back. Since then, I've noticed pain in my lower back after playing the first 1hr set. I notice my upper body is always "hunched over" behind the kit. Maybe I'm sitting too high, but my legs are fairly long. Maybe I should try raising my toms and cymbals. Also, my Gibraltar round top throne is just not cutting it. I'm thinking of ordering their oversized motorcycle throne with a backrest.
    Check out the Obus Form seat thing. Worked for me back when I drove a lot.

    all the best...

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    Check out the Obus Form seat thing. Worked for me back when I drove a lot.

    all the best...
    Thanks! I'll definitely check it out. The truck seats appear comfortable, they just don't seem to fit my body structure. The driving position is uncomfortable as well. Sad to say, but my '97 F250 with a bench seat is way more comfortable than the 2011 Silverado. I'm told by the end of the year, I'll have a new company vehicle. Probably a car or small SUV like a Ford Edge.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  22. #22

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    For this:



    I'd go with this since you're using Pearl pedals:


  23. #23

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    I get the whole thing about the feet on the floor and all that but what I can't understand is all the twisting and writhing that it must take to reach everything on those monster set ups!

    all the best...

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