Ludwig Black Beauty

[Bish]

Wow! I want one! But at this rate, Bish will own all the drums!

Good news!! There's more available.

Some sort of a ballet move?

This is just information I'm passing along and did not know what splay was until I stumbled upon the topic in the other forum.

I'll try to explain it the best I can. (Lazy way, no pictures.) I'm sure Late8 will be happy to illustrate.


Splay is used to describe the abnormal angle either inward or outward of the lug screws if the alignment of rim to lug isn't even.

Some snare drum marketing photos inadvertently have a picture of a snare drum and you can see in the picture that the rim is too large for the lugs on the shells or the rim is unevenly tightened and the lug screw angles are not parallel to the shell itself.

An easy fix is to add gasket material between the shell and the lugs to push the lugs outward more to better align with the holes in the rims. Ludwig snare drums are notorious for this and their marketing photos show the condition better than most other brands, according to other statements on other forums.

Another reason for the condition is if the head/rim combination is not sitting level on the edge of the rim. If the rim is tightened too much to one side it pulls the rim unevenly and can be pulled outward more on the over tightened side, creating splay on that set of lug screws. The lug screws would not be parallel to the shell with the lug head pointing away from the shell. On the opposite side of the drum the lug screws would be pointing inward towards the edge of the shell, instead of being parallel to the shell.


I'm not sure I'm explaining it correctly.

[N2Bluz]

That's a pretty good explanation. I've noticed that pressed steel hoops always seem to have the seating surface of the tension rods slightly angled in. If the lug case is too far out, the tension rod only contacts the hoop on one side (as opposed to sitting flat). Also, the further out from the shell that the lug nut is, the more leverage and torque the lug puts on the shell. I suppose the best scenario would be to get the lug nuts as close to the shell as possible and the tension rods as parallel to the shell as possible. I could envision the bottom lug screw pulling out on the shell, while the top lug screw creates a force into the shell. Maybe a little splay is actually beneficial in evening out the forces on the shell created by the lug screws? This is all pretty much speculation, but fun to think about!

[ludleg]

Congrats Bish - the Black Beauty is an incredible snare. Glad to see you got the P86 strainer. They are so much better than the P-85.

[late8]

Bumping this up....your thoughts on the BB?

[Bish]

Bumping this up....your thoughts on the BB?

Honestly?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Not impressed. I think and hope it could be tuning and head selection.

I spent most of the weekend toying and tuning and playing it. I think I need some guidance.

What is the general tension settings and what head combo does get high marks?

I'm not satisfied and maybe I don't know what I'm listening for.

I can say that my TAMA Starphonic Brass and my Mapex SE snares blow this one away at the moment. But I'm not done tweaking. I do need anyone's input that has used the drum or has one and is happy with the settings.

HELP!!!!!!!

[Bish]

P.S. I have a TAMA tension watch so if you can relate the tension settings I can at least get close and go from there. Thanks!!

[rickthedrummer]

Honestly?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Not impressed. I think and hope it could be tuning and head selection.

I spent most of the weekend toying and tuning and playing it. I think I need some guidance.

What is the general tension settings and what head combo does get high marks?

I'm not satisfied and maybe I don't know what I'm listening for.

I can say that my TAMA Starphonic Brass and my Mapex SE snares blow this one away at the moment. But I'm not done tweaking. I do need anyone's input that has used the drum or has one and is happy with the settings.

HELP!!!!!!!

P.S. I have a TAMA tension watch so if you can relate the tension settings I can at least get close and go from there. Thanks!!

Black Beauty's are touchy things, and the BB Super Sensitive that I use are even more so.

You just have to keep playing with it and you will find the sound that you are looking for.

For what it's worth, I've always used Diplomats for the batter on all my snares and left the reso alone, so I doubt if my settings (I use a Evans Drum Dial just to get a starting point when I change heads) would help you.

[N2Bluz]

I haven't found a snare yet that I didn't have to fiddle with over & over & over until I found a sound I liked. I can get the heads and bare drum sounding good, but once I engage the snares, it's a new game.

[Ricardo]

Bish..................I can tell you how I prefer to get my preferred sound out of the Black Magic................

Let's simplify the range of head tension to three categories:

Loose (slightly tight lug bolts);
Medium, and;
Cranked.

In addition to the stock snare side reso, I'm using a 2-ply coated batter head..............currently an Aquarian Super 2.
But I also have had good results with a coated Emp.

Loose and Cranked DO NOT sound good to me.
The medium range is where I like to find the best sounds on the Ludwig BM.
My best is at Medium plus a bit more tightening.

I don't know if any of this will be helpful with your BB.
But I thought it might be worth a try..............I've tried them all.
I've got other snares where Cranked sounds good............but not the Ludwig.

[late8]

Honestly?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Not impressed. I think and hope it could be tuning and head selection.

I'm not satisfied and maybe I don't know what I'm listening for.

HELP!!!!!!!

Wait a sec. You mean to tell me you didn't go to the store (i.e. brick and mortar) and play the Black Magic up against the Black Beauty or for that matter, any snare?

Ok, for what it's worth, I sat down and played the BB up against every snare my little music store had on the shelf before I pulled the trigger. When I brought the first BB home (5x14"), I swapped out the stock heads for my usual snare set up (Remo coated Ambass/Remo snare side reso (thin Emp), took off the stock Ludwig wires and slapped on a PureSound 12 strand snare wires. I did the same thing when I brought the second BB home (6.5x14") which I later traded for a acrylic kit.

Is this your first brass snare?

[dangermoney]

Loose and Cranked DO NOT sound good to me.
The medium range is where I like to find the best sounds on the Ludwig BM.
My best is at Medium plus a bit more tightening.

Same for me on my 5x14 BB, with the reso tighter than the batter. I know that I'm close when I start to hear it open up and "bark" back at me when I'm standing to the side of it and then I just tweak it from there. I use a single ply coated ambassador weight batter over a hazy ambassador weight reso. Some people swear by the coated reverse dot batters ... haven't tried that one yet ...

If you have a tune bot or drum dial, I believe that there are published settings out on the internet that will get you close ... I still tune old school though, although I am thinking about getting a tune bot ...

[rickthedrummer]

I think that most of us would agree that the snare is the biggest pain in the a$$ to tune.

After my last post, I went downstairs to my "drum room" and took my BB SS from where it sits when I play and moved out in front of my drums. In other words, I moved it 14". It sounded crisper.

I then took it to the outer part of my basement (I have a inner room that is 38'x28' and the outer room is 38'x16', and the drum sounded totally different.

My Black Magic, which I bought off a guy I met in the music store about 3 years ago because he was so disgusted with trying to tune it that he sold this month old drum to me for $100 (which I found out later, was going for $360 at the time).

I basically tuned it like I tune my BB, but it is more susceptible to snare buzz with everything else being equal.

Keep messing with it. Sooner (or later) you will get it where you want it and you'll love it.

[Bish]

I haven't found a snare yet that I didn't have to fiddle with over & over & over until I found a sound I liked. I can get the heads and bare drum sounding good, but once I engage the snares, it's a new game.

Isn't that the truth.

Bish..................I can tell you how I prefer to get my preferred sound out of the Black Magic................

Let's simplify the range of head tension to three categories:

Loose (slightly tight lug bolts);
Medium, and;
Cranked.

In addition to the stock snare side reso, I'm using a 2-ply coated batter head..............currently an Aquarian Super 2.
But I also have had good results with a coated Emp.

Loose and Cranked DO NOT sound good to me.
The medium range is where I like to find the best sounds on the Ludwig BM.
My best is at Medium plus a bit more tightening.

I don't know if any of this will be helpful with your BB.
But I thought it might be worth a try..............I've tried them all.
I've got other snares where Cranked sounds good............but not the Ludwig.

Thanks for the perspective. I'll make good use of this approach.

Wait a sec. You mean to tell me you didn't go to the store (i.e. brick and mortar) and play the Black Magic up against the Black Beauty or for that matter, any snare?

Ok, for what it's worth, I sat down and played the BB up against every snare my little music store had on the shelf before I pulled the trigger. When I brought the first BB home (5x14"), I swapped out the stock heads for my usual snare set up (Remo coated Ambass/Remo snare side reso (thin Emp), took off the stock Ludwig wires and slapped on a PureSound 12 strand snare wires. I did the same thing when I brought the second BB home (6.5x14") which I later traded for a acrylic kit.

Is this your first brass snare?

Oh so guilty. I always wanted one, no point is wasting my gas. I will also have a Black Magic very soon. Just now getting my Ludwig snare drum game on. I've been everywhere else.

I do have (as stated above) a TAMA Starphonic COB that is my current snare of choice. Buying the BB I was hoping for an entirely different perspective on snare drums. I've thought about cheating and using similar tensions but wanted to start from scratch. So far I'm just scratching my head.

Same for me on my 5x14 BB, with the reso tighter than the batter. I know that I'm close when I start to hear it open up and "bark" back at me when I'm standing to the side of it and then I just tweak it from there. I use a single ply coated ambassador weight batter over a hazy ambassador weight reso. Some people swear by the coated reverse dot batters ... haven't tried that one yet ...

If you have a tune bot or drum dial, I believe that there are published settings out on the internet that will get you close ... I still tune old school though, although I am thinking about getting a tune bot ...

I'm wondering how the stock Ludwig heads compare. I always try to get the most out of the factory shipped heads until I go for the alternatives.

I think that most of us would agree that the snare is the biggest pain in the a$$ to tune.

After my last post, I went downstairs to my "drum room" and took my BB SS from where it sits when I play and moved out in front of my drums. In other words, I moved it 14". It sounded crisper.

I then took it to the outer part of my basement (I have a inner room that is 38'x28' and the outer room is 38'x16', and the drum sounded totally different.

My Black Magic, which I bought off a guy I met in the music store about 3 years ago because he was so disgusted with trying to tune it that he sold this month old drum to me for $100 (which I found out later, was going for $360 at the time).

I basically tuned it like I tune my BB, but it is more susceptible to snare buzz with everything else being equal.

Keep messing with it. Sooner (or later) you will get it where you want it and you'll love it.

Thanks for all your advice. Back to the lab I go.

[dangermoney]

I'm wondering how the stock Ludwig heads compare. I always try to get the most out of the factory shipped heads until I go for the alternatives.

IMO, the stock Ludwig reso is a keeper and lots of drummers swear by them. However, most end up swapping out the batters for something else, typically single ply coated heads with the optional reverse dot.

Best of luck to you in finding your sound ... I can't wait to hear about it when you do ...

[Bish]

I think the wait is over. Uploading some video tests to confirm.

I spent all evening working the snare and the toms over trying to get what I should expect from these drums.

Toms = Jury still out. I want some Coated G2s for them and teaming up with clear G1s for the resos.

BB = Evans HD dry coated batter. Evans Hazy 300 snare side. Oooh lala. I'm convinced that I approve of the HD dry batter for any snare, so far. It sounds good on this brass, it also sounded good on the aluminum and maple shells.

[N2Bluz]

The HD dry (coated) and Hazy 300 are the same heads I just put on my $39 Maxwin COS snare. I ended up going relatively tight on the batter to get the sound and feel I like.

[cabasner]

Bish, glad it sounds like you may have your BB sound sorted out. However, one more opinion for you. I have a 6x14 BB SuperSensitive (that always sounds like a condom to me) that still has the original Ludwig reso on the snare side but I have an Evans Power Center Reverse Dot batter on it. This head is the best I've found. That said, the best sounding snare drum I have is a DW Sabian Vault Edge limited edition that was obscenely expensive (and I DO mean obscene!) but has unique brass rings that make up the top and bottom bearing edges and a hundreds year old birch center. Not sure what accounts for the sound that I like but it is absolutely there!

On my toms, I've tried one unique approach that might just be working on my cherry shells, but I'm very happy with Evans clear G2 batters over clear EC reso heads. I've heard others say this combo kills the resonance on a tom, but not on mine, and I've got these 2 heads on all my toms, 10, 12, 14, 16, and 18".

[late8]

Some people swear by the coated reverse dot batters ... haven't tried that one yet ...

I put Remo coated reverse dot on my 5x14" BB and loved it but the coating wore off really fast so I swapped it out to an Evans equivalent and it sounded just as good. Today, my BB has a Remo coated Ambass as a batter with PureSound snare wires.

[longgun]

I think the wait is over. Uploading some video tests to confirm.

I spent all evening working the snare and the toms over trying to get what I should expect from these drums.

Toms = Jury still out. I want some Coated G2s for them and teaming up with clear G1s for the resos.

BB = Evans HD dry coated batter. Evans Hazy 300 snare side. Oooh lala. I'm convinced that I approve of the HD dry batter for any snare, so far. It sounds good on this brass, it also sounded good on the aluminum and maple shells.

The HD dry is my favorite snare head.................have one on all my snares, except for one.

To me, it sounds perfect on my BB.

I never realized how much different my BB sounded until I played it side by side with other snares.................just has more "fullness" and body that's hard to explain, but you'll know it when you hear it.

Looking forward to the video

[Bish]

I put Remo coated reverse dot on my 5x14" BB and loved it but the coating wore off really fast so I swapped it out to an Evans equivalent and it sounded just as good. Today, my BB has a Remo coated Ambass as a batter with PureSound snare wires.

Yeah, you should probably just send me those snare wires so I can test them myself. Thanks, man, you're swell.

The HD dry is my favorite snare head.................have one on all my snares, except for one.

To me, it sounds perfect on my BB.

I never realized how much different my BB sounded until I played it side by side with other snares.................just has more "fullness" and body that's hard to explain, but you'll know it when you hear it.

Looking forward to the video

Thank you for confirming my thoughts. Glad to know I have some sense of taste and tonality.

[kay-gee]

I never realized how much different my BB sounded until I played it side by side with other snares.................just has more "fullness" and body that's hard to explain, but you'll know it when you hear it.

Appreciate this statement Long gun. I don't feel like such a lone voice in the wilderness... LOL. Something about Ludwig snare. (just about all Ludwig snares)

Who rules snare world????

LUDWIG that's who!!

all the best...

[ludleg]

IMO, the stock Ludwig reso is a keeper and lots of drummers swear by them. However, most end up swapping out the batters for something else, typically single ply coated heads with the optional reverse dot.

Best of luck to you in finding your sound ... I can't wait to hear about it when you do ...

+1 on keeping the Ludwig reso head. I think they work well with Ludwig snares. On My BB I have tried both an Evans Reverse Dot and an Evans Genera Dry. Got good results - for the sound I was looking for.