Interesting post on a musicians page on social media

[DrumWhipper]

This was posted by a bar owner. How would you respond to this? Do you feel he is a bar owner who could be hurting himself with these demands for bands?

“Looking for bands that can bring 50+ people to bar in Fox Valley Aurora area. If you can't bring 50 than don't bother replying as it will come out of your pocket anyway! Having problems with bands not fullfilling their part of the contract in the form of PROMOTING! So going a new direction. You are required to bring at least 50 people to the show, if you miss any of that number it's $5 a head that you miss. If you exceed 50 it's a percentage of liquor costs, as well as contract pay, band beer/food tab, and a possible recuring spot. If you bring big drinkers and people who want to party you can make a lot of money....a few grand at least! No Cover at door! For more details PM me. Contracts on per band, per night basis.”

[dangermoney]

I think that the answer to whether or not he is hurting himself would depend upon how many bands there are in his area that can consistently meet the 50 person minimum and how many of these bands would find it cost effective to book his bar.

From the bar owner's offer, it looks like these bands stand to make money if they make him money, paying them according to how much money he takes in at the till. He also seems to be offering them additional perks in the form of alcohol/food discounts and sweetening the pot with a regular spot in the rotation. In addition, he isn't charging at the door and it looks like the gigs will be booked contractually, so the band will get paid no matter what.

It seems like a good deal to me for those bands that can draw a crowd and/or keep from running off any built in crowd that he may have ...

[N2Bluz]

I’m guessing if he wants to make bands responsible for bringing in 50 people, he probably doesn’t have much in terms of a regular crowd. His place does not have a reputation for live music. If it did, he would be looking for good bands to entertain and maintain his business, not grow it. Bands that go over well will have people come back again. Bands that don’t would not be booked again. If you don’t make enough money to pay for a band, then don’t hire bands....or pay them what you can afford and deal with the talent level you can get.
There are very few bands that can bring a following of 50 people consistently. Especially to venues they’ve never been to, and a band that locals have never heard of. There’s too much unforeseen issues like weather, sporting events, other bands in town, etc..
I understand the bar owners position, and I sympathize. I’ve been in similar situations and I’ll work with the owners as much as I can to help them make money. That said, If we flop in a place after a couple gigs, I don’t WANT to come back, LOL. It’s a killer on band morale and confidence. I’ve seen fantastic bands from out of town that play to an empty house one weekend, and the next weekend the same place is packed by a crappy local duo with a drum machine.

We played a venue Friday night that’s about 35 miles away. We had about 20-25 fans follow us, which is good for a Friday Afternoon (6-10) gig on an evening that was 70* and sunny. By 9:00, the place was standing room only. I’d say 250-300 people. We the place rockin, people dancing, drinking, etc.. during one song the crowd was singing along so loud I could not hear our own vocalist in the monitors, LOL. BUT.....those people would have been there regardless of who the band was. The point was, we entertained them and they liked us. We’ll be back. Those are the places I seek out for bookings.

[rickthedrummer]

Back in the '60's and '70's, you didn't have to deal with a situation like that. Having said that, I really don't know how I/we would have dealt with that.

When I see what some bands have to deal with in today's world, I'm glad I got in when I did, and really glad I got out when I did.

[dangermoney]

I looked up Fox Valley Mall, Aurora, Illinois. Aurora is a suburb of Chicago with a population of around 200,000 and is the second largest city in the state. Is this where the bar is?

[N2Bluz]

It’s pretty sad. If you’re a good band around here, you can get $800-$1200 per gig...but you’re only going to play 3 or 4 times per year for special events. If you want to play several times per month in the bars, you’re pretty much stuck in the $350-$425 range for a 4hr gig. The only guys making money are the solo, duo and trio acts that can play for $300 or $350. The typical band draw at the small bars are around 20-30 people at any given time. People float in and out, bar hopping. The best you can do is try to get them to dance and drink as much as possible when they’re there. We try to interact, read the crowd and give them a reason to stay (or come back). It’s extremely similar to being a salesman. It pains me to say it, but it’s not about musicianship as much as it should be....even at the grass roots level.

[dangermoney]

I believe that it's like that most places. In my area there are probably 150 bands competing for gigs. Most play small bars for $300-$400 plus drinks and tips. If they suck it up and play the standard dance covers, they might be able to play 6-10 times per month.

The next tier up is $500-$750. These are the better gigs but it's still dance/variety covers for the most part. Some Rock bands make this tier and draw but they are few and far between.

The next tier up is $800-$1500. These bands still do covers for the most part but get to play the upscale, popular clubs and festivals and usually have a large following. The last band that I played with was in this tier.

The next tier up is those bands that play corporate events, casinos, weddings, upscale private parties, etc and make anywhere from $1500 to $2500 per gig. These bands typically don't play club gigs at all.

In my area, bands usually draw in every tier and I haven't played many gigs where we had less than 50 people. I've also played lots of gigs in trendy clubs where it's a combo band/DJ format. We would start at around 10pm, play for 45 mins, the DJ would spin for about 30 mins, we would come back on, etc. The plus side is that we didn't have to bring PA, the club would supply it and the DJ would run sound allowing us to put more green in our pockets.

I live in a Blues town but Blues bands typically play in small venues for hardly no money and a lot of these guys are great players! Classic Rock and Metal is pretty much the same thing. Bands playing original music don't make squat and there aren't many venues that cater to their music. The niche bands that play Cajun, Zydeco, Swamp Pop, and Outlaw/Modern Country do pretty good though because people love to dance to that stuff.

It's tough out there for bands these days and they have to put up with a lot of nonsense from the clubs to make money performing. Not how it used to be back in the day at all ...

[N2Bluz]

As much as I’d like to play a $1000 or $1500 gig, I’m not sure I’d want to play nothing but Casinos and Corporate parties. I love playing the small rural town bars. The people know how to party hard, but they’re always respectful and treat you like family. Even the drunk 21yr old kids are polite & respectful. Never any fights, and the dance with the old folks. They help you carry your equipment and buy the band rounds of drinks. One place in particular only pays $350, but the second time we played there, the old lady that owns it gave us all hugs when we arrived to set up. Before we left for the night, she made us all hamburgers “to go” because she didn’t want us leaving on an empty stomach. She gave us all a good-buy hug and waved as we drove off at 1:30AM. Those were some of the best gigs. I’d play them for free if I had to.

[inthpktplayer]

Would. Never. Bother. Booking. There.

[dangermoney]

N2Bluz, I do too and for the same reasons ...

[DrumWhipper]

I looked up Fox Valley Mall, Aurora, Illinois. Aurora is a suburb of Chicago with a population of around 200,000 and is the second largest city in the state. Is this where the bar is?

Yes

[Bish]

I agree with the above comments about playing the smaller venues.

My new project has been booking the outlying area bars. All within a half hour drive. Easy money.

[Texdrumr]

Interesting he puts all the responsibility on the band. Maybe if HIS service and product was better, people would come regardless.

I'd tell him to take a hike.

[Bish]

My brother lives out in Cali and they sell tickets to their shows. They are kind of like their own agent and performers.

It's one way to guarantee a head count. If they don't show, you still got paid.

If you have to rely on the bar to be honest about any overages, you then have to become an accountant for the bar to ensure they are being honest and upfront about the nightly take. Otherwise you have to take their word for it.

Back when we first started playing out, (1970's) we were conned one night after we showed up for a gig and were told we'd get paid by the head count, not the set amount we had agreed to when booking the event. So we had one of our GF's take a head count all night long at the door and sure enough the totals weren't even close and we got stiffed big time.

I will say, once you get in a place and they like you, good stuff happens.

[N2Bluz]

I can’t imagine selling tickets as a bar band. People around here won’t even walk in a place if there’s a $2 cover charge. In fact, if the bar increases their beer prices or has a drink minimum, they’ll drink the minimum then drink pitchers of water.

[Bish]

I can’t imagine selling tickets as a bar band. People around here won’t even walk in a place if there’s a $2 cover charge. In fact, if the bar increases their beer prices or has a drink minimum, they’ll drink the minimum then drink pitchers of water.

We have one bar on the Illinois side of the river that went through a remodel phase from decent to super nice. They are the only bar 1 in 15 that have bands and the only one charging a $5.00 cover. They are getting it. I don't want to book there as we are still fairly new, and may not have anyone show up. I don't know if we are pay worthy yet or not. We sure are good for free.

[SpazApproved]

I'm not far from Aurora. I should go there and check it out lol
Walk in with 50 friends and see if I can get a free drink

[kay-gee]

Funny

A female willing to take her clothes off can often get paid thousands by bar owners.

Perhaps music just ain't a draw like it used to be

all the best...

[SpazApproved]

So the answer is.... put the two together!
Have a band with strippers?!

genius!

[kay-gee]

So the answer is.... put the two together!
Have a band with strippers?!

genius!

That's what I'm saying ol buddy!

all the best...

[slinky]

Are the drugs included? What's that guy smoking?

With that said those days are pretty much over. Yeah a special event here n there may bring in a crowd but not a regular thing anymore.

Even places that book national acts are not guaranteed a big turnout ... and those acts are usually either big band's after their hey day or up and coming bands that not many have heard of yet.

[drummerMD]

So the answer is.... put the two together!
Have a band with strippers?!

genius!

The Tubes already did that back in the 70's.

[N2Bluz]

So the answer is.... put the two together!
Have a band with strippers?!

genius!

We tried that already. As soon as I took my shirt off the crowd left. Also, I found out that the hi-hats can be dangerous. Serious “pinch point”.

Seriously though, our old rythum player was a good looking younger guy in great physical shape. It definitely made a difference with the young girls. Unfortunately, that’s one reason his wife “suggested” he quit.

[nubdrummer]

Every bar or club owner I talk to about booking the band has the same question: Do you have a following? Surprisingly(to me at least), 40-50 people is a good crowd to most owners. There are very few venues around here that have their own crowd. It's always up to the band to bring the people, and those people must spend money on drinks and food. The only places that have a good built-in crowd are those on the water, and only during the summer, and of course those gigs are extremely hard to get. One owner did at least say it was his responsibility to get people to drink once the band brought them there.

[rickthedrummer]

Funny

A female willing to take her clothes off can often get paid thousands by bar owners.

Perhaps music just ain't a draw like it used to be

all the best...

kay-gee, I have seen bands so bad that I would have paid good money to watch a lady put her clothes back on!