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Thread: Newbie tries die cast hoops

  1. #1

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    Default Newbie tries die cast hoops

    So I have this PDP bronze snare that I dig but have struggled a bit to get the most out of it. I messed with tuning ad nauseum, different heads and snare wires. It gives a nice quick, sensitive response but lately I've wanted it to sound "bigger". It's only 5" deep, but I found it kind of thin and unable to get rid of the whine. Using a moon gel cut in half at 2 locations keeps it under control, but this kills some of the liveliness (I settled on single ply because I prefer that open sound). I changed the Grover snare wires from Jazz to Club and that helped, but here's my latest revelation:

    Found a guy selling a pair of diecast hoops for $60 cdn ($45 US). The snare side (Gibraltar) is new in box, batter side is older and a bit out of round... but it's about as cheap as I'm going to find to discover for myself if diecast is for me.

    Overall the sound is indeed a little bigger! I read about "choking" and change in feel... all I can say is that I have plenty of openness and the feel is solid. There is still lots of metallic ring/resonance but it isn't an annoying whine. The thinness is gone and it sounds more like a quality drum even though it's a cheapie. I hear a tad more volume and focus as some people report. I was nervous about making the thing sound too rock and less jazz but the sensitivity is as good as before. There is an improvement in rimshots/cross stick as I heard in reviews so bonus. It's a welcome move in the right direction for this snare IMO. I'll try different snare wires and probably get a new Gibraltar batter hoop to match the bottom.
    Taye Tourperformer, PDP Hammered bronze snare, 15" Diril Primitive hats, 17" XPlosion, 10" duo splash, 15" Xtreme china, 22" HHX Omni, 7" cup chime, Yamaha 9415 w. Vickicks

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    With due respects Natman, this is the stuff that makes me nuts.

    I've been playing these damn fool things (that you hit with a stick, imagine that, a freakin' stick) for almost 62 years, and have no idea what a "bigger" sound is short of hitting it harder. A quick, sensitive response, as opposed to what, a slow unsensitive response.

    I have used Diplomat batter heads 95% of the time on my snare with my ever faithful popsicle stick 2 1/2" to 3" from the hoop right between where my left hand and right hand fall. There is no metal snare drum "ring", yet I keep my crisp snare sound.

    "I hear a tad more volume and focus". How can 1 really tell? Hit it harder=more volume, hit it softer=less volume. As for "focus", I still don't get that. Does it mean that the drum can "focus" it's sound from 1 side of wherever you are playing to the other?

    Rimshots/cross sticking. 2" from rim to tip of stick, more ring, 3" to 3 1/2" from rim to tip of stick, less ring (and less broken sticks). As for cross sticking, most drummers I've seen, from Buddy to the guy down the block, have the stick about 2" past the rim.

    Don't read too much into reviews. Everyone from top line drummers to guys that suck, have a instructional video up that will tell you how to tune your drums (Good and Getzen come to mind, 2 guys I wouldn't let within 100' of my drums) to guys that will tell you "the secret" to playing paradiddles, to someone who will show you how to get a sip of beer in the middle of a song. Maybe 20% of the instructional videos are useful, the rest are just a rehash of things that started with that ape in 2001.

    If your snare is close to where you want it, leave it alone. Snare drums are like women, doesn't take much to pi$$ them off.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

    IF DOGS CAN'T GO TO HEAVEN, I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY GO

    WILL ROGERS

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    Well with all due respect Rick, the terminologies we use may not be perfectly succinct, and I'll grant you there may be many who get sidetracked or mired in the rhetoric, but I think "focused" is a viable term to describe the lessening of extraneous overtones thus a more...focused...fundamental "pitch". And "big" strikes me as a way to describe the included bandwidth or body of a drums sound.
    There, bet you're really nuts now.
    There are many ways to control the sounds we get from our drums and many reasons we choose the methods we choose. Whether someone tapes a popsicle stick or a hamburger to their head or chooses assorted heads and rims is their choice and every bit as valid.
    Many things I read here piss me off a little too; brand bias and trashing and know-it-alls like me included.
    There. I'm tired and a little ornery tonight so I thought I'd get contentious too.
    I've never tried die cast hoops by the way, just to make this post relevant to the thread.
    Last edited by noreastbob; 12-10-2018 at 12:11 AM. Reason: spelling

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    Hey with all due respect I know a load of drummers who keep time by bashing stuff... that doesn't qualify as making music tho. I only know a handful who sing through their kit however... For sure there are many who over-stress about menial things but that's part of the fun of discovery. I'm just sharing how I heard a difference in some crap I tried. Try not to lose any sleep man
    Taye Tourperformer, PDP Hammered bronze snare, 15" Diril Primitive hats, 17" XPlosion, 10" duo splash, 15" Xtreme china, 22" HHX Omni, 7" cup chime, Yamaha 9415 w. Vickicks

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by noreastbob View Post
    Well with all due respect Rick, the terminologies we use may not be perfectly succinct, and I'll grant you there may be many who get sidetracked or mired in the rhetoric, but I think "focused" is a viable term to describe the lessening of extraneous overtones thus a more...focused...fundamental "pitch". And "big" strikes me as a way to describe the included bandwidth or body of a drums sound.
    There, bet you're really nuts now.
    There are many ways to control the sounds we get from our drums and many reasons we choose the methods we choose. Whether someone tapes a popsicle stick or a hamburger to their head or chooses assorted heads and rims is their choice and every bit as valid.
    Many things I read here piss me off a little too; brand bias and trashing and know-it-alls like me included.
    There. I'm tired and a little ornery tonight so I thought I'd get contentious too.
    I've never tried die cast hoops by the way, just to make this post relevant to the thread.
    Most of these terms, as they relate to drums and drumming, have only popped up in the last 10-15 years. I have never once sat behind my drums and thought "I wish my drums were a little more fatter in sound, thinner, or less sensitive, although there were times where I had wished they didn't make any noise at all and looked like Jennifer Lawrence. I've never listened to 1 of my cymbals and thought "Well, that sucker could be a touch more "trashier" than my other cymbals".

    So much of this started as some form of sales pitch. Convince people that they need it and they will buy it. Everytime we think we are smart because we put a man on the moon, remember we also bought Pet Rocks and made terrariums for them in case they wanted to go for a stroll. So being the brightest beings on the planet is not our forte.

    Don't feel bad, I wake up pi$$ed, and start my day there. If I'm not ready to kill someone by bedtime, my day is not complete.

    Don't laugh at the popsicle stick, it really does work for taking the ring out of metal snares.

    It must be time for scotch because somewhere in the world it's 9:00PM.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

    IF DOGS CAN'T GO TO HEAVEN, I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY GO

    WILL ROGERS

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    I just want to say with all due respect just to match everyone else.

    I'm also going to say that with my Pork Pie Zebrawood kit and snare I was never truly happy until I swapped out the hoops with Die Cast ones.
    So I know EXACTLY how you feel Natman and what you are trying to say.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    "With all due respect" (which is usually a set-up for a following sentence that suggests the respected individual has no clue), different hoops work better on different shells; there is no single answer for all drums.

    I bought my Gretsch USA shells in 1977; that means I've been playing cast hoops for over 40 years -- on this set of shells, they are the correct (and awesome) choice.
    For a few of my snares, I have stamped hoops...................for those specific drums, flanged/stamped is the right choice.
    So the bottom line is this..............I "do respect" both types.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  8. #8

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    I use the 3mm DW True Hoops on my Ludwig BB. It tames the ring just a tad like a die cast but [to me] it retains the feel of a triple flange which I like.

    This ought to get the BB purists stressing lol ...
    Last edited by dangermoney; 12-10-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    The relative flexion and corresponding stiffness of a particular form is based in part on the carbon content of the material steel and the design parameters of the process origin. To that end, a triple flanged hoop can be every bit as “stiff” as a cast hoop and depending on casting variables, of which there are more than with a stamped part. A triple flanged hoop may even approximate the weight and performance of a cast hoop if it was intended to from design inception. So which is stiffer or heavier and how does it impact the physical properties of the assembled product? It depends.

    Made that all up.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by G-man View Post
    The relative flexion and corresponding stiffness of a particular form is based in part on the carbon content of the material steel and the design parameters of the process origin. To that end, a triple flanged hoop can be every bit as “stiff” as a cast hoop and depending on casting variables, of which there are more than with a stamped part. A triple flanged hoop may even approximate the weight and performance of a cast hoop if it was intended to from design inception. So which is stiffer or heavier and how does it impact the physical properties of the assembled product? It depends.

    Made that all up.
    At the 1st sentence, I thought that G-man went to M.I.T.. By the 3rd sentence, I wondered if he went anyplace. By the end, I thought absolutely perfect!!!

    The formula works out like this (?) Triple Flanged, and what we think it will sound like on a particular drum. Cast, and what we think it will sound like on a certain drum.

    To find the real answer I went to the WORLDS FOREMOST AUTHORITY

    The amount of knowledge 1 can accumulate in 102 years (He died last year at 102) is staggering.

    If only Foster Brooks and Professor Corey could have gotten together, this whole thing would have been cleared up in 20 minutes.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

    IF DOGS CAN'T GO TO HEAVEN, I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY GO

    WILL ROGERS

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Newbie tries die cast hoops

    With all due respect, I hope you like the diecast hoops lol
    -Tama Granstar II (12x11, 16x16, 22x16)
    -Yamaha 7000 Series (12x8, 13x9, 16x16 22x18)
    -Crush Sublime E3 (12x8, 16x14, 24x17)
    -Pearl Mixed Series kit (8x7, 10x8, 15x13, 20x14)
    -Brady Jarrah Ply 8x14
    -HHG Purpleheart/Cherry Stave 7x14
    -HHG Red Birch Stave 7x14
    -Pearl Masters MCX 5.5x14
    -Pearl Steel (Pre-Sensitone) 6.5x14
    -Pearl Vintage Professional Series 6.5x14
    -Tama Imperialstar Seamless Steel 6.5x14
    -Tama Soundworks Maple 6.5x14
    -Premier (African Mahogany with Beech Re-rings) 8x14
    -Remo Bravo II 5.5x14
    -OCDP Maple 6x14
    -Crush Aluminum 5.5x14
    -Crush 10 ply Maple 6x14
    -Trixon Birch 5.5x14
    -Wuhan Traditional Cymbals
    -Paiste 2002, 602,

  12. #12

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    I have to agree. I bought a new set of cast hoops. At the next gig, I took them out of the box....and proceeded to beat our lead singer and guitarists over the head with them. Just as everyone says, they stopped whining and are now much more focused.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  13. #13

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    "Try not to lose any sleep man"

    I never lost sleep dealing with musicians so I won't lose any sleep over this.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

    IF DOGS CAN'T GO TO HEAVEN, I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY GO

    WILL ROGERS

  14. #14

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    Irwin Corey!!! I'd forgotten his genius. I's also interesting to appreciate how far television and the recording of it has evolved.

  15. #15

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    You couldn't do this schtick today: Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPcjIrSvcs

  16. #16

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    With all due respect.... awe i just wanted to say it...

    Well actually die cast are good i prefer them over the triple fling flong flanges
    RDM/Damage Poets
    UFiP TAMAHA Zildjian
    REGAL TiP
    AQUARIAN

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