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Thread: How computers killed rock music

  1. #1

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    Default How computers ruined rock music

    Pretty interesting video

    Last edited by DrumWhipper; 04-14-2019 at 07:33 AM.
    Six piece Mapex Armory, Black Panther Blade and Orange County Custom snare drums, Centent Emperor cymbals, and Vater Drumsticks.

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  2. #2

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    Yep.
    It’s actually pretty cool how they can do all that. Once you realize how it’s tweaked, you can definitely notice the difference. I’ve always said that when you listen to Zeppelin, Stones, or anything from the ‘60s/70’s/80s, you can hear tempo variations, mis-cues, dropped beats, and areas of the songs where the groove gets vague.

    Great video! Thanks for posting it!
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  3. #3

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    I like his assembly line analogy which I find interesting because it too is controlled [for the most part] by digital technology today.

    Mainstream recording has basically become a systematized manufacturing process in which musicians are being used as raw materials in the production of product. I guess that I'm fortunate to have been able to record music back in the day when creativity and feel trumped perfection ...

  4. #4

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    Idk just different techniques for different times. In the 70ís it everything was very dry. Toms were heavily muffled.

    Then in the 80ís it was reverb all the things. And drum machines.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
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  5. #5

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    What I take away from it is a sense of justification. It’s OK to not be 100% “on the beat”. Its OK if your timing varies by a few BPM through the song. Even the best guitarists change tempo during a solo. It’s a human thing that effects even the most accomplished drummers and bands. What’s important is the “groove” and playing together. It’s great to be steady and consistent, but no one is perfect...and it doesn’t have to be.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  6. #6

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    I have been saying for years that I've never seen anybody come into a club with a 'nome and time the band.

    If a given song is played at 100 BPM (normally) when played it might go down to 97-98 BPM and finish at 102-3 BPM, and I doubt if anyone will notice.
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  7. #7

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    Fascinating. Learned a lot from this video, thanks for sharing DrumWhipper. Personally, I believe in balance. I'm not opposed to quantifying something to a degree but just like everything else, moderation is a thing. I mean, when you join a band, they're going to expect you to play good time (every musician). But if you play too perfect of time, you'll be accused of sounding too robotic. Remember all the flack Dave Weckl got back in the day? He was blowing us away with his chops but many said that he didn't sound human regarding 'feel'. Right or wrong, Dave started studying with Freddie Gruber and his playing started taking on a more fluid feel. So, the point is valid. I'm not sure I would say it "ruined" rock and roll but there's certainly something to be learned from it.
    - Tom

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  8. #8

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    I wouldn’t say it ruined Rock (or any other music), but it definitely changed it. At least in terms of the packaged recorded music that hear on the radio or purchase.

    It leaves me with questions about “live” performances. Does any of that take place live on stage? If so, to what extent? Are there sophisticated sound systems that can perform stuff like that on the fly?
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  9. #9

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    wow this is a great video. So much information and so eye opening.
    14pc Yamaha Maple Custom Vintage (24pc in total) | 12pc PDP X7 | 9pc Ludwig Jr. | 8pc Pork Pie ZebraWood | 6pc Sonor | 5pc Ddrum Dominion | 5pc Orbitone |4pc Sonor Martini | 55 Snare drums and growing!

  10. #10

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    Technological advancement is not always a good thing.

  11. #11

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    Rick Beato has some good stuff.......................again.
    This vid reminds me of a song from the great Ben Folds called ROCKIN' THE SUBURBS...................

    "I take the checks and face the facts;
    that some producer with computers fixes all my sh*#ty tracks"

    See it live here.................

    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
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  12. #12

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    My feelings are this, click tracks and programs such as he is using in the video can certainly be a good thing, but at the same time too much of anything can be harmful as well.
    Six piece Mapex Armory, Black Panther Blade and Orange County Custom snare drums, Centent Emperor cymbals, and Vater Drumsticks.

    Highway 49 Band


  13. #13

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    Thanks for posting this video. It reminds me of the on going debate among musicians about playing in "time" verses playing with "feel". As a drummer, I'm judged on how well I can keep "time" against other musician's internal clock or in some cases, against a metronome but I can't ignore the ebb and flow of "time" as a song is being performed "live". I guess that's where "feel" comes in?

    The video refers to quantizing audio tracks that started back in the 2000's but Donald Fagen and Walter Becker (Steely Dan) were quantizing their studio tracks as far back as 1972-1980. Before ProTools (1984), piece of "one off" drum quantizing software nicknamed WENDEL was used for the "Gaucho" album.

    "Hey Nineteen" from that album was all WENDEL according to the recording engineer and it had 46 edits to make up the one drum track.

    If the debate is over the fact that quantizing since the 2000's has killed the groove for rock music, in my opinion, I can't buy into that argument when I hear songs like "Hey Nineteen" which was produced way before ProTools.

    Last edited by late8; 04-15-2019 at 04:22 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    "Hey Nineteen" from that album was all WENDEL according to the recording engineer and it had 46 edits to make up the one drum track.

    If the debate is over the fact that quantizing since the 2000's has killed the groove for rock music, in my opinion, I can't buy into that argument when I hear songs like "Hey Nineteen" which was produced way before ProTools.
    True but back then Fagen and Becker were an exception to the rule. These days, digital enhancement has become the norm.

    27 Years ago I recorded an album that was produced and engineered by famed recording engineer Bill Halverson. Lots of 'guest' musicians played on the album and most of the songs had many instruments. Some stuff was punched in but most of it was kept as it was recorded, mistakes and all.

    There were some drum parts that I wasn't happy with. I felt like I could make them better so I asked Bill if I could punch in the replacements. He said to me "Why? The song feels good like it is." so we didn't do it. After listening to it all these years, he was right ...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    The video refers to quantizing audio tracks that started back in the 2000's but Donald Fagen and Walter Becker (Steely Dan) were quantizing their studio tracks as far back as 1972-1980. Before ProTools (1984), piece of "one off" drum quantizing software nicknamed WENDEL was used for the "Gaucho" album.

    "Hey Nineteen" from that album was all WENDEL according to the recording engineer and it had 46 edits to make up the one drum track.
    Wow, I had no idea!
    - Tom

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    When you shop at Drum Bum or BuyGifts.com, you help with the costs of operating DrumChat.com. Please consider patronizing their fine stores. Whether you need unique music gifts for friends or just want a little something for yourself, Drum Bum is the place!

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    Buy Gifts for Drummers. And don't miss the free Drum Lessons!

  16. #16

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    I don't like the cut and paste approach... it becomes fake. I've done the punch in stuff before but never really liked doing it. It's good for times sake i guess for limited budgets.

    We used that same looking program a couple years ago in the studio. Looked like a laptop controlling everything. I thought recording on DAT tape in the 90's was cool.
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  17. #17

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    Steve Winwood's "Roll With It"

    Programmed and quantized drum track by Steve Winwood:


  18. #18

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    That video really gave me an even deeper appreciation of having had the chance to do it the old fashioned way. When my old band did a 7", all the rhythm tracks were laid down in the same room, at the same time to tape. The vocals and guitar solos were overdubbed at a later time, but there was zero computer manipulation. It actually sounds like musicians playing together. I could find a flub here or there, but nobody would call it sterile or lifeless.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezy View Post
    That video really gave me an even deeper appreciation of having had the chance to do it the old fashioned way. When my old band did a 7", all the rhythm tracks were laid down in the same room, at the same time to tape. The vocals and guitar solos were overdubbed at a later time, but there was zero computer manipulation. It actually sounds like musicians playing together. I could find a flub here or there, but nobody would call it sterile or lifeless.
    This

    'cept we did it on 2" reel to reel.
    Signature here

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bish View Post
    This

    'cept we did it on 2" reel to reel.
    I'm not sure if it was 1" or 2" tape. I know that the records were 7" 33 RPM with two short songs on one side and a long one on the other.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezy View Post
    I'm not sure if it was 1" or 2" tape. I know that the records were 7" 33 RPM with two short songs on one side and a long one on the other.
    This was back in the day when we used candles to see anything. Vinyl was the new thing.
    Signature here

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezy View Post
    That video really gave me an even deeper appreciation of having had the chance to do it the old fashioned way. When my old band did a 7", all the rhythm tracks were laid down in the same room, at the same time to tape. The vocals and guitar solos were overdubbed at a later time, but there was zero computer manipulation. It actually sounds like musicians playing together. I could find a flub here or there, but nobody would call it sterile or lifeless.
    The project I'm working on now is recording the old fashion way. Drums and guitar together in the same room with the bass and vocals overdubbed later. If the drums and guitar are locked in, we struck gold and move on to the bass track.

  23. #23

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    I found some recordings of my band pre-digital. I want to say this was around 1975. This is also with my big R Rogers with hydraulics on top and open bottoms. LOL


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    Last edited by Bish; 06-08-2019 at 01:52 PM.
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bish View Post
    I found some recordings of my band pre-digital. I want to say this was around 1975. This is also with my big R Rogers with hydraulics on top and open bottoms. LOL


    https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/...ongID=10817474

    If there are ads I apologize as I don't see them.

    Mahalia Jackson! Sounds like her.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

  25. #25

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    Never needed or used any of that stuff, even when it was available to any band that was making a few bucks.

    Gary Numan had that hit with "Cars", then he opened a deli.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

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