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Thread: Reaching drummer maturityŚ

  1. #1

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    Default Reaching drummer maturityŚ

    I thought i would throw this one out there because i think its an interesting topic: drummer maturity. What i mean by that is for example, when i played drums in my teens i played a lot of the metal stuff and loved clive burr of iron maiden. I sounded horrible and had absolutely no sense of groove ( bonham). I stopped playing drums for about 25 years and then my interest in drums was somehow reinvigorated when i started listening to classic rock again. I soon found myself with an annoying but old habit, tapping! I heard “good times bad times” by zeppelin again and just started tapping that first fill he does in that song and then listened closely to the first drum fill in two tickets “two paradise” by eddie money as well as the first drum fill in “ swing town” by steve miller. Those fills have one thing in common, “ feel and groove “. I never had that nor have i ever tried to learn it. My first drum teacher never taught me that either. I honestly think a drummer needs to know exactly what feel and groove actually mean before they ever pick up a stick. A good drum teacher can easily explain that along with some examples such as the aforementioned songs.
    I enjoy the drums so much more with that knowledge and it has enabled me to play some catchy licks although simple.
    To me this was drummer maturity and of course refraining from over playing and playing for the song.
    Id love to hear some of your thoughts.
    Last edited by Lexer; 01-27-2020 at 09:41 AM.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Reaching drummer maturityŚ

    Great post Lexer. I believe maturity happens differently for everyone. Some kids take awhile and girls tend to mature faster than boys. Life experience has shown me that people have different time periods of arriving at mature thinking, let alone playing. So, I'm not sure they could arrive faster by showing them groove at an early age but it certainly couldn't hurt. It's a part of the drum learning process in my opinion, and the teacher would be derelict in his duty not to include that in their drum lessons regimen.

    Also, while I'm a huge proponent of groove, we must be careful not to beat them over the head with it but rather stress balance. Like drummers that tend to overplay, there are also a plethora of drummers out there (many even playing with national artists) that have nothing to say on the instrument. They completely lack creativity in their playing and are about as exciting to listen to as a metronome. Balance is key.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Reaching drummer maturityŚ

    Great point. I actually matured very late in life hence my maturity in drums as well. I was a very late bloomer in every sense of the term.

  4. #4

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    To me, maturity in playing means playing for the song.
    That includes playing the groove, using dynamics, feeling and expressing yourself within the context of the song. Being able to recognize what fits and what doesn’t fit. Sometimes, what fits is boring...but that’s OK. As your skills improve, you gain the ability to play more complicated and interesting stuff and not make it sound out of place.

    The hard part is finding guitar players that understand the concept, LOL
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    To me, maturity in playing means playing for the song.
    That includes playing the groove, using dynamics, feeling and expressing yourself within the context of the song. Being able to recognize what fits and what doesn’t fit. Sometimes, what fits is boring...but that’s OK. As your skills improve, you gain the ability to play more complicated and interesting stuff and not make it sound out of place.

    The hard part is finding guitar players that understand the concept, LOL
    Well said Brian. You've got this figured out.
    - Tom

    Everyone loves FREE... like this free drum forum. But like your car and even your drums, they require upkeep and maintenance and that requires money.

    Will you consider Shopping at Drum Bum to help support this forum?

    Or make a donation here.



    I know from working with Drum Bum through the years, that this forum is costly to run. It requires server fees, hosting, ongoing moderation, advertising, software upgrades, security certificates and IT work when it breaks. All in addition to the expenses that come from running a business. These costs are offset (hopefully) by members that click through to Drum Bum to make a purchase now and then, if not make a contribution to help keep it running.

    On behalf of Drum Bum, thank you for your consideration.


  6. #6

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    Default Re: Reaching drummer maturityŚ

    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    To me, maturity in playing means playing for the song
    That includes playing the groove, using dynamics, feeling and expressing yourself within the context of the song. Being able to recognize what fits and what doesnĺt fit. Sometimes, what fits is boring...but thatĺs OK. As your skills improve, you gain the ability to play more complicated and interesting stuff and not make it sound out of place.

    The hard part is finding guitar players that understand the concept, LOL
    I really like this! You nailed it on all sides. Even about guitarists... lol.

  7. #7

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    OP wins the internet with that post.

  8. #8

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    When I learned to stop trying to exceed my limitations but to play to them..............
    The Varukers.

  9. #9

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    I wish I could go back to when I took drumming more serious and was learning everything and every style I could. Keep me back on track.
    14pc Yamaha Maple Custom Vintage (24pc in total) | 12pc PDP X7 | 9pc Ludwig Jr. | 9pc Pork Pie ZebraWood | 6pc Sonor |5pc PDP Concept Maple Classic | 5pc Ddrum Dominion | 5pc Orbitone |4pc Sonor Martini | 65 Snare drums and growing!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    To me, maturity in playing means playing for the song.
    That includes playing the groove, using dynamics, feeling and expressing yourself within the context of the song. Being able to recognize what fits and what doesnĺt fit. Sometimes, what fits is boring...but thatĺs OK. As your skills improve, you gain the ability to play more complicated and interesting stuff and not make it sound out of place.
    This is really true for a lot of things, especially across all art. This nails most of what, I think it would be.
    The only missing piece is having a good metronome. If you don't have that, you can't be a good drummer. You can have all the chops in the world, but if you can't count externally, internally, or even have it second-nature, the whole song falls apart, the audience gets lost, and suddenly, the bandmates are glaring at you.

    It's something you have to build up over time, through repetition. That's what maturity is.
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  11. #11

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    I was staying far away from this until:

    "The only missing piece is having a good metronome. If you don't have that, you can't be a good drummer. You can have all the chops in the world, but if you can't count externally, internally, or even have it second-nature, the whole song falls apart, the audience gets lost, and suddenly, the bandmates are glaring at you."

    I would never say that you can't be a good drummer because you have to play to a metronome so I resent the implication that I couldn't be a good drummer because I never played with 1.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

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  12. #12

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    I remember hearing an interview and the drummer said he played in a lot of bands in and around LA back in the early 80’s because he had a reputation for keeping time. It may have been the drummer for Ratt.
    So yeah, time is very important. Lets also give some props to Phil Rudd ( the human metronome) lol.
    I think that it what “ concrete building” was trying to say when he mentioned a metronome. Great chops need to come with great timing.
    Last edited by Lexer; 01-29-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  13. #13

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    "Great chops need to come with great timing."

    Not really
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    "Great chops need to come with great timing."

    Not really
    Why do you think that Rick? What good are licks if they're not played in time? Unless one is playing free jazz with Ornette Coleman, I don't understand your reasoning.
    - Tom

    Everyone loves FREE... like this free drum forum. But like your car and even your drums, they require upkeep and maintenance and that requires money.

    Will you consider Shopping at Drum Bum to help support this forum?

    Or make a donation here.



    I know from working with Drum Bum through the years, that this forum is costly to run. It requires server fees, hosting, ongoing moderation, advertising, software upgrades, security certificates and IT work when it breaks. All in addition to the expenses that come from running a business. These costs are offset (hopefully) by members that click through to Drum Bum to make a purchase now and then, if not make a contribution to help keep it running.

    On behalf of Drum Bum, thank you for your consideration.


  15. #15

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    I only responded to this because of "The only missing piece is having a good metronome. If you don't have that, you can't be a good drummer", which is obviously wrong.

    I have never had a lesson, owned a metronome, or owned a pad. At the same time I think I did OK in my life. As for "my reasoning", it's just that, my reasoning on how I look at things. Do I have to explain it....................no, I don't. Will I explain it...............................no, I won't.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

  16. #16

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    You could just play for someone like Captain Beefheart and forget about all that stuff ..

    Seriously though one way that i think i've matured and know I've matured is my dynamics are much better now. I have some videos from the early 90's where i just slammed my way through most of the set. Granted it was hard rock but still... the pre show festivities didn't help too much either.
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  17. #17

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    I think another aspect is listening to the rest of the band and being able to make adjustments (timing, dynamics, style and even the count) on the fly. I see drummers that just take off playing a song and just keep hammering away, seemingly paying no attention to the rest of the band. Pretty soon everything is off and/or the groove is lost. I think you need to be flexible and always be aware of how all the components/instruments are fitting together in the context of the song. Mesh with the Bass, play off of the style of the guitars and control the feel and dynamics of the song.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  18. #18

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    Time is important but my Lord there is no reason a musical group has to be mono temponic (?) I hear guys all the time who are so over-concious of iron tempo and trying to prevent the band from getting excited that they play behind the beat ALL THE TIME! I can't stand it. There is zero energy, no pep, it sounds like it's dragging all the time. Behind the beat should be a sparsely used effect for ponderous profundity. Many of the best bands not only push but finish a significant amount of BPM faster. On records. The very best can speed up and slow down together so it has meaning, beauty and art. It's the same exact thing as dynamics. It's called feeling. It's about UNITY with meaning and energy. Practicing with a metronome is good and actually kind of fun if you have and use a little creativity though.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by noreastbob View Post
    time is important but my lord there is no reason a musical group has to be mono temponic (?) i hear guys all the time who are so over-concious of iron tempo and trying to prevent the band from getting excited that they play behind the beat all the time! I can't stand it. There is zero energy, no pep, it sounds like it's dragging all the time. Behind the beat should be a sparsely used effect for ponderous profundity. Many of the best bands not only push but finish a significant amount of bpm faster. On records. The very best can speed up and slow down together so it has meaning, beauty and art. It's the same exact thing as dynamics. It's called feeling. It's about unity with meaning and energy. Practicing with a metronome is good and actually kind of fun if you have and use a little creativity though.

    At long last a voice of reason.
    YOU MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU KNOW.

    YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE DEVIL YOU DON'T KNOW.

    VAE VICTIS

    ONCE YOU HIT A CERTAIN AGE, YOU BECOME PERMANENTLY UNIMPRESSED BY A LOT OF CRAP.

    I HIT THAT AGE 20 YEARS AGO.

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