Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Help Me Understand.......

  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Default Help Me Understand.......

    I know I may be beating a dead horse because I've asked this before and I've read enough about it but I need to understand, with a little help from my Drum Chat family, exactly how rudiments worked or are working for you......

    Every day I set my metronome and play at a comfortable speed for about 5 minutes then I increase the temp about 4 bpm and play again for a few minutes. I inrease the tempo until I'm not comfortable anymore then I slowly go back down to my starting bpm. If I do this consistantly, with just say, singles, doubles, paradiddles this will improve my drumming? How exactly? Accuracy, speed, both? I actually stopped doing my rudiments, a while ago, because I felt like I was wasting my time (and because I got my kit). Someone has encouraged me to do my rudiments, tells me they are important, so I've started again........

    Tell me your rudiment experiences and give me a little hope.

  2. #2

    User Info Menu

    Default

    I'm wondering that too, its kinda hard to understand. I stopped my rudiments and started learning songs and im kinda having a hard time with songs so I figured I go back practicing my rudiments.
    Paiste Posse
    14inch 2002 series Sound Edge Hi-hats
    16inch and 18inch Signature series Fast crashes
    20inch 3000 series Ride
    18inch PST5 series China

    Pearl Forum Series drum set
    Pearl Chad Smith Signature snare(steel shell)
    Tama Iron Cobra Chrome

    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  3. #3

    User Info Menu

    Default

    DC, where I see rudiments coming into play is when you begin doing fills, because you get a chance to begin putting the various rudiments toether to create a unique sound. Also, when you understand the rudiment concepts, then you can begin putting the hands together with the bass to create interesting combinations.

    Have no fear, they will pay off. You may feel like you are behind right now, but as you progress you will see that because you have spent so much time perfecting your rudiments now, you will catch up, and maybe even breeze right by those of us who have not put in the rudiment time that you have.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





    For coupons and specials, join the Drum Bum mailing list.

    Buy Gifts for Drummers. And don't miss the free Drum Lessons!

  4. #4

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Mrs. Drum Chick,
    It is my belief that there is a time for work and a time for play. Rudiments and basic fundamentals are very important and should be practicedÖbut all work and no playing doesnít make for a very happy drummer! You really just need to get behind the kit and play! No matter how basic it may sound, just start off slow and do whatever you want behind the kit.

    Iíve seen so many great technical drummers who could do double rolls with their feet so much better than I could even do a single stroke roll on my snare BUT: they donít know how to get behind a kit and just play.

    Play, Play Play, and practice basic fundamentals daily if possible but remember to PLAY.

    This wonderful world of music is filled with great technical musicians but some of them can never come out of the basement because they canít play with other musicians.

    Itís a very fine line but if you donít have some fun with it, why would you want to ever continue?

    So go and play and make some mistakes and have a laugh at yourself and start right back up againÖ

  5. #5

    User Info Menu

    Default

    PB and Shinka I think you two have said it all . Nothing else needed.

  6. #6

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Miles Davis once said...Spend all your lifetime learning the rules of music...then forget them and just PLAY!

    Rudiments are kind of the builing blocks of drumming. They not only increase you co-ordination but will develop the vocabulary, from which you will later draw from as you learn new grooves and fills. Don't think of them as boring but as making you a better player. good pianist and violinists cant escape playing scales. It is a similar thing. The scales of percussion instruments, if you will.

    all the best...

  7. #7

    User Info Menu

    Cool Help Me Understand...

    Shinka, thanks, bro'...

    It drove me nuts when I was learning the rudiments (and there are still a few that need work even now), but the more tense and uptight I got, the worse I played; the worse I played, the more tense and uptight I got; the more tense and uptight I got...well...you get the idea!

    Relax, DC...remember that this is something you wanted to do, not something someone forced you to do...

    We all have ups and downs and, knowing you, you'll get back on track in a short time...and you'll have that revelation that PB had! Hang in there!
    keep the beat goin' ... Don't keep it to yourself!

    Charlie

    "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." --Henry David Thoreau, "Walden," 1854

    "There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value." --In memory of Frank "fiacovaz" Iacovazzi

    "Maybe your drums can be beat, but you can't."--Jack Keck

  8. #8

    User Info Menu

    Default

    People often say "learn the rudiments" but don't always know how to present them to beginning drummers. The most important rudiments to learn are the single stroke roll, the double stroke roll, and maybe a couple rudiments that mix the two (like paradiddles or inverted paradiddles). Learn those three "REAL" good and then don't worry about it that much. You took up drumset to play to your average rock songs right? Not to be in a drumcorps or to be a fancy soloist. Or at least not right now.

    Like Shinka said, keep it FUN first and foremost. Learn beats that you like and even beats that challenge you on the drumkit. Learn how to get from the beginning to the end of songs seamlessly, and make minor changes to your beats along the way to keep it interesting from vs to bridge to chorus, and so on. Learn simple drum fills and practice putting them on the 2nd bar of a two bar phrase or the 4th bar of a 4 bar phrase. Learn 1 beat fills, 2 beat fills... and when you're comfortable with that, learn how to fill an entire measure. Listen to the tracks of the songs you want to play and emulate what you hear the drummer playing. There are even CDs and DVDs that have music without drums and it helps you have that band experience without actually being there. A lot of it (esp. on more basic rock songs) will be easy to pick up and you won't even need rudiments. Whatever the case, make "playing for the song" your ultimate goal. Believe me, that won't be as much about playing rudiments as it will be about playing tastefully and making the song feel good.

    Primarily the rudiments enable you to have "chops" (which is a musician's word for "musical vocabulary"). They give you complex tools for getting to more advanced levels of drumming with regard to coloring the music and playing more complicated drum fills. And then of course, as mentioned, they are required for marching/drumline/drumcorps drummers because that's the very nature of what they're playing. They play sheet music filled with nothing but rows and rows of mixed rudiments from 5 stroke rolls to 9 stroke rolls, to flam taps, and flam paradiddles, to ratamacues, to 15 stroke rolls, and so on.

    Back to Drumset: Show me 10 middle of the road club drummers that play drumset and are making a living playing full time and I'll show you 9 drummers that can't even play 26 of the standard rudiments, let alone 40. It's often blown out of proportion and probably discourages a lot of beginning players.

    All that said, I'm not saying don't learn the rudiments, I'm saying just practice 3 or 4 of them in the beginning and get them down real good. Put your focus back on the drumset and later on when you're feeling confident about your drumming and feeling that you're really starting to make some progress, then you can work on more complicated rudiments that will take your playing to the next level. Because then you'll be ready for it in your head. You'll be newly inspired and wanting to learn them rather than being discouraged and learning them out of obligation because everyone's telling you that's what you should be doing.

    Susan, this is geared primarily toward you. When I teach junior high or high school kids, I have to keep them on the rudiments because the band curriculum calls for it. I just wanted to keep that in perspective.
    Last edited by drummer; 01-25-2008 at 12:14 AM.
    - Tom

    See the new Drum Bum Store!





    When you shop at Drum Bum or BuyGifts.com, you help with the costs of operating DrumChat.com. Please consider patronizing their fine stores. Whether you need unique music gifts for friends or just want a little something for yourself, Drum Bum is the place!

    For coupons and specials, join the Drum Bum mailing list.

    Buy Gifts for Drummers. And don't miss the free Drum Lessons!

  9. #9

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drum_chick View Post

    Every day I set my metronome and play at a comfortable speed for about 5 minutes then I increase the temp about 4 bpm and play again for a few minutes. I inrease the tempo until I'm not comfortable anymore then I slowly go back down to my starting bpm. If I do this consistantly, with just say, singles, doubles, paradiddles this will improve my drumming? How exactly? Accuracy, speed, both?
    Yes, both speed and accuracy. But also "control" Think of a baby that is learning to walk for the first time. She first has to learn to get up, then she has to learn how to put one foot in front of the other. Then she has to learn to turn without falling down. Then she learns to get faster at walking because she's getting a lot of practice at it. Then she learns to go backwards. Then she learns to hop or stand on one foot.

    Then she reaches a stage where she doesn't "think" about walking or running anymore. She has practiced it so much that it is now automatic. She doesn't "try"to walk, she now just walks, or turns, or runs... with great ease.
    - Tom

    See the new Drum Bum Store!





    When you shop at Drum Bum or BuyGifts.com, you help with the costs of operating DrumChat.com. Please consider patronizing their fine stores. Whether you need unique music gifts for friends or just want a little something for yourself, Drum Bum is the place!

    For coupons and specials, join the Drum Bum mailing list.

    Buy Gifts for Drummers. And don't miss the free Drum Lessons!

  10. #10

    User Info Menu

    Thumbs up Help Me Understand.......

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    People often say "learn the rudiments" but don't always know how to present them to beginning drummers. The most important rudiments to learn are the single stroke roll, the double stroke roll, and maybe a couple rudiments that mix the two (like paradiddles or inverted paradiddles). Learn those three "REAL" good and then don't worry about it that much. You took up drumset to play to your average rock songs right? Not to be in a drumcorps or to be a fancy soloist. Or at least not right now.

    Like Shinka said, keep it FUN first and foremost. Learn beats that you like and even beats that challenge you on the drumkit. Learn how to get from the beginning to the end of songs seamlessly, and make minor changes to your beats along the way to keep it interesting from vs to bridge to chorus, and so on. Learn simple drum fills and practice putting them on the 2nd bar of a two bar phrase or the 4th bar of a 4 bar phrase. Learn 1 beat fills, 2 beat fills... and when you're comfortable with that, learn how to fill an entire measure. Listen to the tracks of the songs you want to play and emulate what you hear the drummer playing. There are even CDs and DVDs that have music without drums and it helps you have that band experience without actually being there. A lot of it (esp. on more basic rock songs) will be easy to pick up and you won't even need rudiments. Whatever the case, make "playing for the song" your ultimate goal. Believe me, that won't be as much about playing rudiments as it will be about playing tastefully and making the song feel good.

    Primarily the rudiments enable you to have "chops" (which is a musician's word for "musical vocabulary"). They give you complex tools for getting to more advanced levels of drumming with regard to coloring the music and playing more complicated drum fills. And then of course, as mentioned, they are required for marching/drumline/drumcorps drummers because that's the very nature of what they're playing. They play sheet music filled with nothing but rows and rows of mixed rudiments from 5 stroke rolls to 9 stroke rolls, to flam taps, and flam paradiddles, to ratamacues, to 15 stroke rolls, and so on.

    Back to Drumset: Show me 10 middle of the road club drummers that play drumset and are making a living playing full time and I'll show you 9 drummers that can't even play 26 of the standard rudiments, let alone 40. It's often blown out of proportion and probably discourages a lot of beginning players.

    All that said, I'm not saying don't learn the rudiments, I'm saying just practice 3 or 4 of them in the beginning and get them down real good. Put your focus back on the drumset and later on when you're feeling confident about your drumming and feeling that you're really starting to make some progress, then you can work on more complicated rudiments that will take your playing to the next level. Because then you'll be ready for it in your head. You'll be newly inspired and wanting to learn them rather than being discouraged and learning them out of obligation because everyone's telling you that's what you should be doing.

    Susan, this is geared primarily toward you. When I teach junior high or high school kids, I have to keep them on the rudiments because the band curriculum calls for it. I just wanted to keep that in perspective.
    OLA DRUMMER (TOM) DRUMMER ARTIST*Every thing you Said (STATED) was( excellent )How you expressed every word Just flowed As
    I fully Agree * a great Post (THREAD)EXCELLENT ARTISTIC Writeing.GRACIAS
    sTICKS WIZZARDDRAGON

  11. #11

    User Info Menu

    Default

    I try to pratice at least 3 or 4 rudiments a day with a new one added every other day ..

    Its not easy but I keep remembering how hard it was when I first tried the basic 2/4 and 1/3 beat..and then I remember how it fealt when I finally got it.

  12. #12

    User Info Menu

    Default

    I think that practising rudimants boils down to one thing, stick control... It provides the ability to play accuratly and in time complex patterns. DC you are on the right track practising in the way that you do. If you keep it up soon you will be able to play fills of all types and perfect the ability to not come out of the fill having sped up two,three or four, bpm. A lot of drummers suffer with that problem. but practising rudiments to a metronome will really help you control that. They are boring but I think essential to learn to control time and your sticks.

  13. #13

    User Info Menu

    Default

    PB ad shinka said it all, its all well and good to be brilliant at rudiments and your fills will be brilliant but rudiments wont teach you groove and as shinka said just playing,
    Got to stop hitting my self in the face with those drumsticks!!

  14. #14

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mulla14 View Post
    PB ad shinka said it all, its all well and good to be brilliant at rudiments and your fills will be brilliant but rudiments wont teach you groove and as shinka said just playing,
    I agree with you mulla. But rudimaents with a metronome also teach time. You can't groove without time. I here it all of the time with people trying to teach themselves to play the drums. They will do a fill and invariabley speed up as they go around the kit. I've have watched in my own son and worked with him a lot on it to maintain the same speed coming out of a fill as going in. What DC is saying that she does when she practises I think is valuable training in the long run. She'll learn to groove and make music feel good as she learns to maintain her time no matter what sticking pattern she uses. It is all about control and if she establishes those habits now, she won't have to break bad habits latter.

  15. #15
    ThePloughman Guest

    Default

    Heres one of the Masters.......one of the worlds all time great drummers addressing this very thing..........


    Jim Chapin on playing the drums.

    Its more than worth the couple of minutes


    http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/j...wisewords.html

  16. #16

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Thanks everyone for your knowledge, as always, it's priceless to me

  17. #17

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Rudiments for me are to improve chops, make up beats and fills and help open your mind to combinations on the kit
    I play, Gretsch Catalina Birch, 7 piece in the vintage sunburst finish.


    RIP, Frank. You will not be forgotten. Missing you, mate

  18. #18

    User Info Menu

    Default

    they are important to know, because u can use them in fills, and if you march, you use them all the time. Plus, they keep your muscles working and are helping them to become stronger everyday you practice.plus, practicing the rudiments gives you a system to practice by, instead of just practicin g random stuff, which is not an effective way to practice
    DRUMMERBOCK


  19. #19

    User Info Menu

    Default Rudiments

    Quote Originally Posted by drum_chick View Post
    I know I may be beating a dead horse because I've asked this before and I've read enough about it but I need to understand, with a little help from my Drum Chat family, exactly how rudiments worked or are working for you......

    Every day I set my metronome and play at a comfortable speed for about 5 minutes then I increase the temp about 4 bpm and play again for a few minutes. I inrease the tempo until I'm not comfortable anymore then I slowly go back down to my starting bpm. If I do this consistantly, with just say, singles, doubles, paradiddles this will improve my drumming? How exactly? Accuracy, speed, both? I actually stopped doing my rudiments, a while ago, because I felt like I was wasting my time (and because I got my kit). Someone has encouraged me to do my rudiments, tells me they are important, so I've started again........

    Tell me your rudiment experiences and give me a little hope.
    Drum Chick...The Rudiments are important for a variety of reasons. they build stamina, strength, accuracy and all those other things you've heard they do. However, what you are failing to realize is, what exactly, are Rudiments. They are simply, stick patterns. That's it! Once you come to fully understand this concept, then you will truly become aware of what they can do for you as you play on your kit. One of the very best of the rudiments is, of course, the single paradiddle. You know it as RLRR LRLL RLRR LRLL. You play it as 16th notes: 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a. Bu, the paraddiddle is also RRLR LLRL RRLR LLRR. And, it is also RLRR RLRR RLRR etc. Now, rather than play this in 16th notes, play them as triplets: RLR RLR LLR LRR. This now gives you an entirely different perspective while retaining the same sticking pattern. Consider...there isn't a single "Famous" drummer who doesn't know, appreciate and fails to practice the rudiments. Probably two of the very finest are Travis Barker and Joey Jordison. Buddy Rich was world famous because he knew the rudiments and was able to play them with speed and accuracy. Once you get into the habit and discover for yourself how great they can be, then you'll be amazed at yourself. I've played now for 46 years and I use them constantly on the set as I play with my big band. I couldn't play without them.

  20. #20

    User Info Menu

    Default

    ::Sigh::

    I read this thread thoroughly, and one thing struck me. Backtodrum was the only one to mention the importance of the groove.

    It's good to have a knowledge of rudiments. Remember that rudiments are just a series of strokes and exercises to build dexterity. They have little to do with playing your instrument.

    Some of the most technically proficient drummers in the world e.g., many of the drumline champions, can't swing with a band to save their lives. Same for many classically trained percussionists. They're too conditioned to lock in to a conductor and have no sense of improvisation or feel.

    The best advice I can give any beginning drummer is to not become obsessed with technique before you learn how to play. Get out there and jam with other musicians and learn feel. Even if, and especially if, you all suck.

    Learning how to find a groove when the guitarist is rushing, the bassist is dragging, and the vocalist has no clue whatsoever, is the best way to learn.


    /your mileage may vary.
    No, I still won't play Wipe Out.

  21. #21
    ThePloughman Guest

    Default

    Ive met guitar players, mostly young ones, who could do amazing things. Alone. But they were incapable of doing amazing things, or even basic things, in the company of other musicians. Ive seen quite a few drummers who were the same way.

  22. #22

    User Info Menu

    Default

    I knew a fellow back home who could do some Neil peart fills to a T on a drum kit, but on a simple four to the bar country groove, just not able to find it and keep it. That always stuck out in my mind!

    all the best...

  23. #23

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Taking your rudiments from your practice pad and then applying them to the kit is not always easy, Youv'e been banging out the rudiments for a few months on a little pad right, all happy coz doubles and diddles are smooth and sounding even, then when the first kit comes along...wow.... all this new sound and beats to play, geeze this is fun making up beats. Then its back to the snare for a rudiment right!!....wrong. All Your beats are rudiments. Try this, time 4/4...bass drum beat 1 2 3 4,...., now keep the bass drum going and do eight note pradiddles.... the right hand on the bell of the ride, left hand on the snare. nail it then move the hands around and enjoy the sounds and the beat/rudiment.

  24. #24

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Totally!

    all the best...

  25. #25

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Yeah rudiments can be moved all over the place, like ratmycue says. Which hey, your name comes from a rudiment. One cool thing you can do is the 1 2 3 4 on the bass. Then play with your right hand doing hi-hat and your left doing snare, play paradiddles

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •