Doubles.....volume???

[Wotto]

Hey group,

Hope I can explain this OK.

I am starting to try to get doubles going around the kit.
I can manage doubles OK and can run em pretty fast on the hats and on practice pads, snare etc

What I am finding is that when I do doubles on the TOMS the volume is substantially lower than anywwhere else on the kit.

I understand that my 2nd stroke may be a little lower in strength than my 1st stroke but I just dont seem to be getting a consistent and decent volume on my toms from doubles. I certainly get nowhere near the nice punchy attack sound that my toms produce if I am just playing singles...nowehere near it

Or is that just what I am hearing ( or not hearing ) from behind the kit???

Any tips would be appreciated

[Shazane]

I've never had that problem. What kind of heads do you have? And how are they tuned?

[Wotto]

I am using Evans EC2 Clear Heads- they sound great and I dont wish to change them as I have finally settled on them after trying many other heads.

Tunings is just above wrinkles ( which is possibly contributing ) but they are tonally where I like it so I dont want to tune them higher/tighter.

I actually wonder if I am subconciously hitting the toms softer

[crazymanwithaplunger]

Slow down and conecentrate on becomming consistant in strike strength and volume, then gradually speed up again.

[livewire80]

Definately sounds like a technique thing on the doubles. I think it is usually the second stroke for most people that loses volume because the second stroke loses its power. A nice snap of the last three fingers should be producing the power for the second hit.

[Wotto]

Awwwwe man , do I really have to slow down
I hate this slowing down stuff

I am trying to do doubles in order to speed up, now I have to slow down again ...damn and curse this drumming stuff !!!!

[coke_can]

use 2 hands..
no but what everyone else said

[Shazane]

Yes, it isn't the heads or anything... You could use a more powerful double stroke technique like a single push-pull. Doing it once is easy, the technique is known to be difficult because chaining them together is, but a double stroke with it shouldn't be hard to get up to speed, and you wouldn't need to slow down to do it.

[crazymanwithaplunger]

Well considering I think the idea is continual - not just a single double stroke (if that makes sense), then he would need to slow down to learn the push/pull technique properly anyway. Unfortunately, if you can't do it at speed, you need to slow down to learn it properly - it's just the way it is. Otherwise you can find ways to cheat, like I do, or just focus on getting freakin quick with singles - which is the other option.

of course the advantage to slowing down will allow you to figure out what your doing that makes it quieter. Once you start working on it, you should be able to speed up again failry quickly, as you sound like your already rather comfortable with the technique, it's just a matter of working out the kinks.

[Shazane]

I got the impression that you're trying to quickly do single executions of double stroke like:

T|--oo----|
T|----oo--|
T|------oo|
S|oo------|

did you mean a continuous double stroke? because then cmwp is right and my advice doesnt work.

[Wotto]

Yes Shazane - that or very similar.

Say I am doing doubles on the hats LLRRLLRR etc then I want to carry that over to the toms, snare etc....I might try coming off the hats and going Snare LL, Tom1 -RR, Snare LL, Floor Tom RR or stuff like that.

So what happens is my hat doubles are 'cooking along nicely' and the second that I get to the tom double it just sounds heaps lower and then THAT gets 'in my head' and stuffs me up completely.

[Wotto]

Well considering I think the idea is continual - not just a single double stroke (if that makes sense), then he would need to slow down to learn the push/pull technique properly anyway. Unfortunately, if you can't do it at speed, you need to slow down to learn it properly - it's just the way it is. Otherwise you can find ways to cheat, like I do, or just focus on getting freakin quick with singles - which is the other option.

of course the advantage to slowing down will allow you to figure out what your doing that makes it quieter. Once you start working on it, you should be able to speed up again failry quickly, as you sound like your already rather comfortable with the technique, it's just a matter of working out the kinks.

Dont laugh - but .....' the push /pull ' method??????
I am ready to learn.....do tell

[crazymanwithaplunger]

No ones gonna laugh at you mate - there's always a time where we don't know this stuff - even drummers who've been playing for years may not know certain techniques.

Anyway, onto the technique. It's basically a wrist movement that allot of drummers use to help increase speed in their hands, as it's a way of performing a double stroke that is relatively simple, but also quick. It uses the theory of expending less energy for more strikes essentially, the same as the moeller technique.

My basic description is simply this:

You strike once (the push part) then "pull" or lift your wrist causing the stick to go down and hit the drum again - this also requires some use of your fingers - again, basically pulling the base of the stick. Then you "push" your wrist down again and play another stroke, repeat and rinse. It's a little screwy to describe and makes a whole lot more sense when you get to see it. There is a clip of Jojo Mayer around somehwere doing it I beleive that is just brilliant. I'd love to be able to link you to it - but i'm at work at the mo and cant get access to any video site that hosts video clips.

Actually, just did a quick look through some posts and found these two threads that have dealt with this previously.

http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...ight=push+pull

and

http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...ight=push+pull

The first one was a question about the push pull tehcnique. the second one it gets brought up during a discussion of the moeller technique. Drummer actually posts a link to a video that shows how it works to.

[Kjbakke2]

slow down and try to hit both sticks in the same spot on the head

[Drummerbock]

well if you think your not getting as punchy sound, try recording yourself. and then, of course , listen to the recording. if, in fact, your doubles are softer on the toms, then just play them as if they wre accented, and then regularly on the snare. hope this helps.

[Wotto]

Thanks for all the reponses guys.

Have watched the videos and will concentrate a little more on getting that 2nd stroke 'up' a notch or two and practice my technique.