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Thread: Erratic High hat beats

  1. #1

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    Default Erratic High hat beats

    Be fore warned, This is a real newbie type question

    I play drums in the church band (drums, bass, keyboards)and the band leader said that I was erratic or inconsisitent(spelling?) with my HH hits, He also said some times I over play them..any suggestions or Ideas what will help with this?


    Along with this, as I mainly play just a plain jane 4/4 beat on most songs..but on songs that have bass beat of 1 3+ and snare on 2 and 4, I play the high hat on each beat, 123+4.

    The leader and keyboardist said I should only play HH on 1234, that when I try to play HH on 123+4 I am playing the rhythm and not percusion or beat, and that is the rhythm is the keyboardist job. They say this is because I used to play guitar and am trying to play rhythm. This sound confusing to me?

    Shouldn't I keep HH beat on all counts? They said to many doing the same thing.
    Thanks

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    you can play it on 1234 or 1n2n3n4n. can't go wrong with that
    Paiste Posse
    14inch 2002 series Sound Edge Hi-hats
    16inch and 18inch Signature series Fast crashes
    20inch 3000 series Ride
    18inch PST5 series China

    Pearl Forum Series drum set
    Pearl Chad Smith Signature snare(steel shell)
    Tama Iron Cobra Chrome

    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Thanks.
    When I play 1n2n3n4n, that is when he says I play erratic or inconsistent, not hit the same number of beats in each measure, or so they say I don't notice it. maybe i just need to spend more time with the metronome.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Just keep it simple and steady.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    andrews got it. and all you gotta do it practice it slow, and gradually build up sleep. good luck!
    DRUMMERBOCK


  6. #6

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Worshiphammer, is your right hand trying to follow you right foot?
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  7. #7

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    PB,
    Yeah I never thought of it before, but yes it is. My right hand is hitting what my right foot does.

  8. #8

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    That really shouldn't be too hard to fix with a little practice.

  9. #9

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    Yeah, and you can always go back to 1&3 on the bass, with 2&4 on the snare, and 8ths on the hi-hat until practice works out the glitch.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    BTD and PB,
    I know this sounds a bit stupid but,
    This is where I am a confused. So my right hand should NOT do what my right foot is doing??? Right.

    I thought it was supposed to, to keep beat, so I am not sure what i should practice to fix the problem.
    Thanks for any help on this.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    You mean your right hand should never hit the hi hat when you play the bass drum? Who said that?
    Feel free to chat to me on MSN!: Unreality3D@gmail.com

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    you should practise independence. I'm not sure of your ability or how long you have been playing so It's hard to suggest a dvd or book just yet. best bet is to keep it simple. Practise this if you are a beginner, bang out 8th notes on the hi hat and change the kick beats, leave your left hand out of it for now, concentrate on the sound of your hi hat , it should stay smooth and steady.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaAw@ View Post
    You mean your right hand should never hit the hi hat when you play the bass drum? Who said that?
    RhaAw@ it wasn't that the hi-hat should never be hit at the same time as the bass. We are saying that hi-hat doesn't have to be hit at the same time as the bass. It all depends on the beat. Worshiphammer was having a little problem with limb independence that's all. Nothing a little practice, as Ratmycue described, can't work out.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    RhaAw@ it wasn't that the hi-hat should never be hit at the same time as the bass. We are saying that hi-hat doesn't have to be hit at the same time as the bass. It all depends on the beat. Worshiphammer was having a little problem with limb independence that's all. Nothing a little practice, as Ratmycue described, can't work out.
    Yeah I worked it out eventually, I was a little confused as to what he meant at first. Right hand/right foot independence is something I remember struggling with quite badly at first.

    I don't know how good you are but maybe try a simple reggae beat as the kick and hi hat are normally opposite each other.

    Something like this:

    hh |-x-x|-x-x|
    sd |--x-|--x-|
    bd |x---|xx--|

    BTW did you see my wrist action (haha) video bob, any use?
    Feel free to chat to me on MSN!: Unreality3D@gmail.com

  15. #15

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    hey, lemme know when you have a little time to come by and i can prolly get ya straightened out in about an hour or less.

  16. #16

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    The first beat I learned was 8th notes. I hit the HH on each beat but played the bass drum on 1, 3&. I played the snare on 2, 4.

    HH |xxxxxxxx|
    SD |--x---x-|
    BD |x---xx--|

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaAw@ View Post
    BTW did you see my wrist action (haha) video bob, any use?
    Yes, I did see it RhaAW@, and I will work on it. Thanks!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


    Drum Bum: Gifts for Drummers

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  18. #18

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Erratic hi-hat is caused by a poor misconception of the beat or tempo. If you are playing the ride rhythm on the hi-hat( 1&2&3&4&) then that should be easy enough. If, on the other hand, you are playing the ride rhythm on your primary cymbal, keep the hi-hat on the 2 - 4 along with your left hand. The bass drum can be played on all 4 beats or 1 - 3. This is a basic pattern and foundation for all the patterns to come. If you can, get a copy of Tommy Igoe's GROOVE ESSENTIALS instructional DVD. He demonstrates over 40 essential patterns and begins with the most basic of patterns. Along with the DVD, is a poster with each of the grooves printed so that you can follow along and practice with or without the DVD. I've been playing over 40 years and I watch this quite often...I finally got caught up with World groove patterns and recently learned the Songo and Mozambique. What a kick!!
    Good luck to you...

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Thanks guys, I am very much a newbie, I can play just enough to back up a very simple church band. Just basic beat, a crash now and again and no fills.

    Lots of great info to digest here. I will try out the different beats you suggested and work on the independence and will look for the GROOVE ESSENTIALS DVD.

    Funky-Thanks for the offer. I just returned to work on Monday so that limits my daytime hours. I will send you a private message with my number. I would be willing to come by anytime that is good for you. Thanks

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    I don't know if this will help, or make it more confusing - but count it out (loud) as you play it. To me, it sounds like you should be playing 8th notes on your hi hat but the way you described it, it sounds like quarter notes (which to me, usually creates a dragging effect on a song anyway and unless the tempo is fairly high, should probably be avoided). Let me explain

    You said "I play the high hat on each beat, 123+4." Which to me would read as follows

    |x-x-|xxx-| HH (quarter notes, with a single 8th note)
    |x---|xx--| K
    |--x-|--x-| S

    if you switch it to

    |xxxx|xxxx| HH (eighth notes)
    |x---|xx--| K
    |--x-|--x-| S

    You should find it easier to count it this way. Counting out loud 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, your right hand will be able to follow it easier without becomming "erratic". By doing it the other way, I think you'll find it sounds "off" to most people, hence the complaint from your bandmates. Once you get comfortable with the 1 & 2 & counting method, you then switch it up to 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a which will enable you to play 16th notes on the hi-hat and create more complex snare and kick patterns, as your breaking it down more so, like this (something random)

    |xxxxxxxx|xxxxxxxx| HH(16th notes)
    |x-------|xx---x-x| K
    |----x---|----x---| S

    Lastly, as your working on these things, start slow then build up. Oh and one other thing (that might be helpful), don't think of the hi-hat as keeping the beat - instead try thinking that there are three things to drumming patterns - beat, timing and rhythm. the "beat" is controlled by your kick, the hi-hat is responsible for timing (generally). The rhythm is the almagamation of what your actually playing aginst the beat and within the timing. This is just a mindset thing that may influence how you play and learn things, and it sometimes helps to "think" about things differently in order to learn them. This also touches on your bandmates claims (i think we've had previous discussions on them before) that the rhythm is the keyboardists job - when actually rhythm and percussion go hand-in-hand.
    Last edited by crazymanwithaplunger; 02-19-2008 at 07:41 PM.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  21. #21
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    It usually sounds better when the hihat isnt doing exactly what the snare and bass are. What I mean is...

    If you're doing this:
    |x-x-|xxx-| H
    |--x-|--x-| S
    |x---|xx--| B


    I'd suggest this way instead:
    |x-x-|x-x-| H
    |--x-|--x-| S
    |x---|xx--| B

    That way there's a bass hit in between the hihats. There's some groove in that.

    However it also depends on the tempo of the song, if it's more upbeat then CMWP's tab would be more appropriate.

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    I definitely recommend Tommy Igoe's Groove Essentials, its what my teacher used to teach me when I started!
    Paiste Posse
    14inch 2002 series Sound Edge Hi-hats
    16inch and 18inch Signature series Fast crashes
    20inch 3000 series Ride
    18inch PST5 series China

    Pearl Forum Series drum set
    Pearl Chad Smith Signature snare(steel shell)
    Tama Iron Cobra Chrome

    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  23. #23

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    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazane View Post
    It usually sounds better when the hihat isnt doing exactly what the snare and bass are. What I mean is...

    If you're doing this:
    |x-x-|xxx-| H
    |--x-|--x-| S
    |x---|xx--| B


    I'd suggest this way instead:
    |x-x-|x-x-| H
    |--x-|--x-| S
    |x---|xx--| B

    That way there's a bass hit in between the hihats. There's some groove in that.

    However it also depends on the tempo of the song, if it's more upbeat then CMWP's tab would be more appropriate.
    That's what he's trying to accomplish - he's having difficulty though with the independance required to do it. My suggestion was more in ordert o cover this up and additionally it would help with the independance problem. The third advanatge is it works on his ability to play 8th notes without be "erratic" as his bandmates were claiming. The fourth advatange would be if the song was not a punk or heavy rock style of song, it stops any drag effect from happening by only playing quarter notes on the hi-hat - something that I hear allot and drive me mental eprosnally. Youve got a basic song at a basic rock tempo and there's this drummer only playing quarter notes for the song, making it sound slower than it actually is - drives me crazy personally.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  24. #24
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Erratic High hat beats

    Quote Originally Posted by crazymanwithaplunger View Post
    That's what he's trying to accomplish - he's having difficulty though with the independance required to do it. My suggestion was more in ordert o cover this up and additionally it would help with the independance problem. The third advanatge is it works on his ability to play 8th notes without be "erratic" as his bandmates were claiming. The fourth advatange would be if the song was not a punk or heavy rock style of song, it stops any drag effect from happening by only playing quarter notes on the hi-hat - something that I hear allot and drive me mental eprosnally. Youve got a basic song at a basic rock tempo and there's this drummer only playing quarter notes for the song, making it sound slower than it actually is - drives me crazy personally.
    All depends on the song. But I think he should definitely practice it with quarter notes, so instead of just covering up any lack of independence he can overcome it. Also, I think it's more than just the hihat that makes alot of rock songs seem so slow, if they had notes in between the hihat beats in groove fashion then it would counteract the problem, I think the simplicity makes it seem slow, not the quarter notes.

  25. #25

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    Just because I can, i'm still gonna disagree. While kinda. Not that I disagree, but i'm thinking more in lines of what people play at church - knowing those type of songs and the requirements, and also taking into account the skill level of hammer (no offence) but simple is good, that's not what i'm saying.

    What i'm referring to is the impact the quarter notes often have on music of this type, where simplicty IS key, in that it creats a drag effect. It's not about tempo or seeming slow (although, I know I worded it like that) it's an effect. Think of it like this. PLay a standard 4/4 rock beat at about 120 BPM (for example sakes anyway). Without changing tempo, switch between quarter notes, 8th notes and 16th notes on the hi-hat pattern. As an experienced drummer, you can already hear in your head the differences between each and the effect that has on the "feel" of the beat. Now, take the same thing and do it to a basic rock song, common in modern churches. 9/10 songs will prefer the "feel" of that beat played using 8th notes, as 16th notes sounds "too quick", while the quarter notes have that dragging effect I mentioned. Like I said though, the actual tempo of the song is a factor here aswell. And since we dont' know what it is, it makes it hard to judge.

    Any advice is kinda general anyway, and the basic idea of counting out loud (especially as a learner) is a real good rule no matter what. Additionally he had already indicated that 8th notes were the way to go, but he struggles according to his band leader to keep it consistant. As a result he had already dropped back to the quarter notes, despite counting it essentially in 8th notes (there's a good way for a newbie to get confused) and is still finding the independance is an issue - which it is for most newbies. The offer form Funky is gonna have the best effect overall id' say as if funky can work with him for like 15 minutes, he'll start to get it i'd reckon. Doing it on your own is always a longer process, especially when you'v got pratts like us giving varying advice - all of which has merit and potential to be helpful, but is completely unguided.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

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