Cymbal Selection

[althatjazz]

Recently in the space of 6 mths, the drummers in my church have managed to crack 5 crash cymbals! 2 of those are brand new 16" and 17" A Customs. The rest are fairly used Sabian HH 16" Medium Crash, 16"HHX Evolution, and an Istanbul A.R.T.16". I've repaired the cymbals that were cracked at the edge but the ones that were cracked just after the bell area can't be helped i think. But the ones that were salvaged were also damaged soon after. I've talked to the drummers (all 10 of them;age range from 13-30yrs) regarding technique n the need to have a bit of restraint due to our cymbals thickness that are mostly thin to medium. Having done that, the cymbals still were damaged. I have to buy new cymbals now. I'm thinkin of getting a thicker 16" crash and a 17" or 18" crash ride. But I am told that thicker is not the answer. Can anyone advise? Thanks alot

[pastor_bob]

I would do exactly what you have done, and before I went and got the new cymbals, I would watch the drummers to see if they change their technique. If not, I would get them exactly what they need . . . Zildjian ZBT's, or the equivalent, until they learn how the treat a good cymbal.

[ThePloughman]

Pass the plate. Everyone buys one cymbal, or they are out. Time to ante up. If you dont ante up, you dont get any cards. Once it starts costing them as individuals, technique will begin to improve. Then, you break one, yer out. Or, you buy the replacement. The best technique for learning technique isnt videos on technique........ its draining the wallet.

[pastor_bob]

Very practical solution Ploughman!

[STICKSWIZZARDDRAGON]

Pass the plate. Everyone buys one cymbal, or they are out. Time to ante up. If you dont ante up, you dont get any cards. Once it starts costing them as individuals, technique will begin to improve. Then, you break one, yer out. Or, you buy the replacement. The best technique for learning technique isnt videos on technique........ its draining the wallet.

HOLA COMO ESTAS THEPLOUGHMAN*CREATIVE ARTISTIC ARTIST DRUMMER (CAT) THATS A FANTASTIC WAY to that, SITUATION*
THEIR NO PROBLEMS JUST SOLUTIONS & THOSE (CATS) SHOULD HAVE more (RESPECT) as these CYMBALS ARE A ANCIENT FINE TUNED INSTRUMENT **
GRACIAS

[STICKSWIZZARDDRAGON]

I would do exactly what you have done, and before I went and got the new cymbals, I would watch the drummers to see if they change their technique. If not, I would get them exactly what they need . . . Zildjian ZBT's, or the equivalent, until they learn how the treat a good cymbal.

HOLA COMO ESTAS *PASTOR_BOB CREATIVE ARTISTIC ARTIST DRUMMER(CAT) EXCELLENT *POINT*

[totti]

Hello Althatjazz....Nice to meet ya....

Recently in the space of 6 mths, the drummers in my church have managed to crack 5 crash cymbals!

Uh, mate....
5 crash Cymbals for 6 months...It must about technique Issue, as far as I know Zildjian and Sabian have great durabilty....(And top of that, It's A Custom !!!)

I would get them exactly what they need . . . Zildjian ZBT's, or the equivalent, until they learn how the treat a good cymbal.

Nice Advice PB !!
Yeah....Buy ZBT or even you can grab some Planet Z or Paiste Brass 101....
They're inexpensive and suiatble for beginner....They also have average durabilty...

[Church Drummer]

I agree with PB buy cheap until they can learn not to break them. If you're going through that many Cymbals in that short a time, somebody is doing something wrong. Ploughman makes a good point also, if it costs them money maybe they'll lighten up.

You might also consider asking the drummers to bring their own cymbals from home when it's their turn to play.

[pastor_bob]

You might also consider asking the drummers to bring their own cymbals from home when it's their turn to play.

Another very good suggestion CD!!!

As you can see ATJ, there is no reason for the church to have to continue subsidizing the cymbal breakage without some serious accountabiliry on the part of the drummers.

[althatjazz]

Thanks guys for all your responses and advice. I think what I will do now is to get something along the line of B8Pro or ZBT. I may get a ZHT if it's only a little more expensive than the B8Pro or ZBT. It should sound better right?Those who feel they need better cymbals are encouraged to get their own. That's the most justified solution for now i believe looking at the motley crew of drummer boys and gals that we have. I just hope that the stage levels won't become overbearing because of these lower end cymbals. (We were always 'pampered' with good ones) Although we have 5 1/2 feet plexiglass panels, sound still spill over considerably when we were using the A Customs, HH and HHX. We have a small stage. Anyway, I will most probably purchase a 16" crash and an 18" crash for crash/ crashride work. What do you all think? Need expert advise and affirmation again....Thx in advance

[kay-gee]

drummers need to learn discipline and control. Period. Have to learn to play to the room...How come, as soon as as these whippersnappers get behind a kit, they think they are in Madison sq Gardens?

all the best...

[pastor_bob]

A lot of truth there KG. Drummers who play in a worship setting need to understand that they become more than just a drummer. They are now a worship drummer, and that requires sensitivity. It requires learning to tone done the dynamics of the playing.

[backtodrum]

I would tell them that if they break on they will replace it, there is absolutely no reason tio break an A custom cymbal, especially in church. Eveyone will suffer when you get less expensive cymbals. We all know what that means they will not sound as good as what they had before and the music will suffer.

[ThePloughman]

In church some guys will always be a drummer. Which isnt really what you need in a church at all. To some extent, you have this in a band also.... but in a church setting its even more pronounced, simply because the playing is so different in church vrs. a band. The drummer must become a member of the worship team. And if the worship team is going to be successful in leading worship, they must work as a team. With, as was stated in a previous post......sensitivity. And playing to the room. I think anyone breaking cymbals in a church setting, isnt really playing with the team nearly as much as they are trying to impress each other.

I also think rather than buy out cheap cymbals, you guys ought to meet as a group and hash out what cymbals you want to play, and work out what will go well together...... then as a drumming team, put all that in a hat and draw for the privelige of buying and donating one cymbal each to the team. Even if that means having more cymbals than would be played at any given time on the kit. Especially since it sounds like a lot of different people have been breaking cymbals.

[fiacovaz]

Drummers in my area who play Sunday church services use their own kits and equipment. I think that would solve your problems.

[pastor_bob]

In church some guys will always be a drummer. Which isnt really what you need in a church at all. To some extent, you have this in a band also.... but in a church setting its even more pronounced, simply because the playing is so different in church vrs. a band. The drummer must become a member of the worship team. And if the worship team is going to be successful in leading worship, they must work as a team. With, as was stated in a previous post......sensitivity. And playing to the room. I think anyone breaking cymbals in a church setting, isnt really playing with the team nearly as much as they are trying to impress each other.

I also think rather than buy out cheap cymbals, you guys ought to meet as a group and hash out what cymbals you want to play, and work out what will go well together...... then as a drumming team, put all that in a hat and draw for the privelige of buying and donating one cymbal each to the team. Even if that means having more cymbals than would be played at any given time on the kit. Especially since it sounds like a lot of different people have been breaking cymbals.

Wow Ploughman, that is another very wise suggestion!

[drum fusion]

A customs are nice but they are on the thin side. i hear all the time of people breaking them. they should be for a single drummer on his own kit. one who knows technique( and cymbal cost).not for the house kit for anyone with different skill levels to use.whether the pay for them or not, A customs (i think) are a bad choice for that situation,they cost too much just to be thrown before unskilled performers.

[2slow]

10 drummers ?? How big is the church and how many services ? I've never hurt a cymbal and been playing a long time. If you are breaking cymbals you are doing something wrong !! Have the soundman turn up their monitors and make their (the drummers) ears bleed....

[coke_can]

2slow, im thinking they have some kind of teenage worship thing or something where they all go to a big room and sing worship songs and stuff on sunday nights. but thats just what they do at my church

[althatjazz]

Drummers need discipline n control, n need to play to the room. I agree with you kay-gee. Like pastor bob says, sentivity. Different dynamics r needed when u play in a room, the chapel, or a 1,500 seater auditorium. Anyway
2slow, our church consists of 1600 members, with 4 main services over the weekend. We worship in a 400 seat hall. Last year, the youths(teens) have started to meet in the same hall. So we have a total of 4 adult drummers n 6 teen drummers. I've always had a close-watch over d older drummers. Some of the stuff tht u guys shared here, i've told them before. Now with d inclusion of the younger set of drummers, I have to monitor them as well. I've talked to their leader, n also some older ones among them. Hopefully they'll learn to be good stewards of a wonderful instrument tht existed since bible times, the cymbals...

[koopa]

Make sure your drummer is using those clear plastic tubes on his cymbal stands that protect against the cymbal stand creating "key holing" on the cymbals.

[althatjazz]

Yup koopa, we've got the plastic tubes in place...You've got a nice kit there, Pearl MMX Master Custom Maple. And K's and A's. My kinda set up... but at the moment it's only wishlist....

[Ch33zz]

If their cracking new a customs, there has to be a problem, especially at a church? im assuming you guys do a bit more of the stomping music and such?

But still, A customs have enough flex and give in them to not break, they should be fine, their technique must REALLY fail

[drumdeano]

You could try using an Aquarian Spring mount for the cymbals.With so many drummers to choose from pick the drummer with the most control and use him/her as the house drummer.Tell everyone this is what we expect of you and untill you can play at this volume you can play only @ practice.With so many drummers trying to play you're getting into a who's better contest and some people who might lack skill will use volume to compansate.Use smaller size drum sticks and make sure the crashes are angled down towards the player,not setup straight across where they could hit the edge.Its hard to make cheaper cymbals sound good and playing drums without bringing anything is always a treat.It doesnt happen often and we should respect the equipment.