More Changes to Drum Chat

[su_admin]

It has been a longstanding concern of many in this forum that discussing religion and politics would lead to devisiveness and many of you have spoken up about it. We tried allowing it because we felt that we could manage conversations through moderation when things start to get out of control. Until now we seemed to be able to do just that but due to Drum Chat growing substantially, we can no longer control the negative sentiment that these hot button issues sometimes produce. As a result, we have decided to no longer allow discussion of religion or politics in this forum.
I know many of you will be happy about this while others may feel dissappointed. Please remember that it is difficult to please everyone but I think if we keep the focus on drumming, than we've ultimately acheived the purpose of this forum.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

[Herb Utsmelz]

Good decision. Political and religious discussions are pointless and useless, just like blogs and letters to the editor.

Unfortunately, a lot of people spend a lot of time typing their viewpoints, thinking someone else's opinion or life may be changed. Heh. Sorry. Doesn't happen.

This site should be about drums.

[jimbolimbo99]

Less threads about politics and religion= more threads about drums =

[kay-gee]

Yeah just keep it to meaningful things...like...Hey, I broke a drumstick last week!...LOL

all the best...

[Riouel]

i agree on ban politic and religion

this is vey difficult to manage what is right or wrong

a very good decision

[Church Drummer]

I haven't seen a problem on here with the discussions of either topics, but I can understand your decision to not include them. I just hope that this forum doesn't turn into the same as some of the others I've participated in that don't allow controversial topics. Other furums that limit discussions only to the prescribed topics, have become very boring and stale over time. I don't believe for the most part people participate in these decussions in an attempt to change peoples mind, just get people to understand there are other veiws out their than their own.

[fiacovaz]

I haven't seen a problem on here with the discussions of either topics, but I can understand your decision to not include them. I just hope that this forum doesn't turn into the same as some of the others I've participated in that don't allow controversial topics. Other furums that limit discussions only to the prescribed topics, have become very boring and stale over time. I don't believe for the most part people participate in these decussions in an attempt to change peoples mind, just get people to understand there are other veiws out their than their own.

For the most part, CD, I would agree with you and, like you, I, too, hope that this Drum Forum doesn't become stale and boring...there is so much that can be shared and learned. One fact of Life that cannot be ignored is that there are individuals who will use those platforms of Politics and/or Religion in the attempt to change and impose views upon others. Sad to say, that was beginning to happen in here. To allow that to continue would be to go beyond the stale and boring. Perhaps I am just to simple a person but I believe that what all may personally hold dear in matters of Faith and Politics is part of what makes all such welcomed individuals. In other words, I am here to discuss, share and learn all that I can about drums and drumming and all else that I may hold fast is personal to me.

[drummer]

One fact of Life that cannot be ignored is that there are individuals who will use those platforms of Politics and/or Religion in the attempt to change and impose views upon others. Sad to say, that was beginning to happen in here.

And in my view, that pretty much sums it up. There are many forums out there that don't allow religion and politics and now I understand why. There is no more danger of this forum getting stale than any of those other forums out there. There are literally "hundreds" of topics to discuss in the Shoutbox or the Off Topic forum for anyone that needs a change of pace.

All of this is no big deal really. If your true intention for being here is to talk drums and make friends then everything is here at your disposal. If you want to promote your political or religious agendas, there are any number of places to do that on the net.

And don't think you can't make reference to something Christian or Jewish or political. Geesh we're not going to get stupid about this. For example, if someone mentions that they play in church and wants to know who else does, they can certainly discuss their role as the drummer there and tricks and tips for playing in church, etc. But the minute that (again) this becomes a platform for promoting your personal Christian ideals, it will be my job to politely cut it off. It's got to stay on the topic of drums. Likewise, if someone is Muslim and happens to mention something like "Where can I find drumtabs for Islamic songs?", there would be no reason to delete something like that because it is relevant to drumming.

The bottom line, as admin stated, is that you can't please everyone. I knew this would rock the boat a bit but it's not the end of the world. It's simply a step that they thought would help streamline the board to keep things from getting devisive. I hope you can respect their decision.

[ThePloughman]

So then a post on which version of Amazing Grace do you like the best, and how to you relate to the lyrics in playing that style and what do they mean to you, and the feeling you get from them.......... would be allowed? Or would it end up closed, censored because it is going to be a very religious topic. As would a discussion of any religious songs lyric be. All the taboos would be there. Religious beliefs, a persons doctrinal approach to salvation, their world view as a christian.... perhaps even touching into political views as well, if you know the history of the song itself.

You will never be able to seperate some of us from our religious views, because thats where we play.

[pastor_bob]

Ploughman, I think the administration is sensitive to that, and they aren't going to squash all religious or political speech. What they want is that it's primary purpose be relevent to drumming in some way. In so doing, we also become sensitive to one another's differences, as well as our similarities. Don't forget that Drum Chat is a grand experiment in creating a mutually supportive, loving community. That so many would enjoy meeting one another at a public Drum Chat event attests to the success of what Drum Chat is doing. It simply was felt that politics and religion were 2 topics that tended to work against the overall vision for Drum Chat. I can remember a female drummer that was new to Drum Chat, who became offended during a religious debate and never came back.

You guys all know what I do with my life, and even I can't fault the administration for what they have done.

[ThePloughman]

I cannot fault them for having done this. I think it was warranted. For example the Joel Olsteen thread. Some of the things in that were way across the line for me. And probably so for others. And also some of the political threads, I would have to say the same, things were stated that were inflamatory, or just ..."out there." Its just that this was done without any real definition, and now there are postings praising and or condemning the decision for a variety of reasons. Right now, things are much more vague to me as to whats acceptable or not. Perhaps I havent expressed my thoughts clearly enough. Maybe Im just asking for some sort of objective guidance here.

[32ndHeartBeat]

I can only agree it was the best move plain and simple.

[pastor_bob]

This is good then. The general feedback that I'm getting is that people are not really concerned that it was a bad move (with a few exceptions). More than anything, people are confused about what exactly will be appropriate, and what will not. Is this correct? It will help the administration if we can ask the right questions to get the clarification that is needed.

[ThePloughman]

Pastor Bob, I think you pretty much sum it up there. Some of the posts and threads in the Christian Drummers area were innocuous, favorite hymn/song, favorite scripture, things about leading worship, um...... several things that while religion was at the core of the concepts being discussed, it wasnt some kind of doctrinal fight over whether seeker friendly is biblical or abortion or anything volatile. A lot of those threads, while having a basic interest in religious topics, werent of the vein that were controversial. And they are all gone. Many could easily have been relocated to the off topic section. And in the off topic section, many things are discussed that do not have drumming at their core. But those things arent touched. So like I have been trying to say, its vague as to what is ok and what is not ok. And now is created an environment where members are required to push the envelope in ways that before werent necessary, or even considered. So, does a person just post a thread and wait for it to be either censored, closed, or deleted or even risk being banned or censored for violating rules that werent well thought out to begin with? From what I can see now...... with no real criteria other than a magic blanket of religion and politics... its rather arbitrary, as there is no real guideline.

[Church Drummer]

I'm not saying that I totally dissagree with the decision, but I will miss the polite exchange of ideas that I've experienced here dealing with those topics. I was just saying I hope we don't get so afraid of offending someone that we eventually find ourselves left with only drums to talk about.

[pastor_bob]

Well, my experience with Drum Chat is that they will not be heavy handed as things are sorted out. I think, in general, we can figure out the basic idea. The Off Topic forum will be for any non-drumming topics, as long as we refrain from politics and religion. In the other forums, we can discuss anything related to drumming within those forums, as long as the drumming is the main concern of the post. It still allows us all to be who we are, but not to take it to the place of controversial. I have already checked, for instance, and the administration had no problem with my ID being pastor_bob. Everyone understands what that means, concerning my beliefs, but I don't have the right to come in here with the unexpressed purpose of converting all the members to my beliefs.

[drummer]

Perhaps I can clear it up for you Ploughman. I thought I had done that but let me take another stab at it:

- Favorite hymn - no
- Favorite scripture - no
- Things about leading worship - no
- How can I play drums quieter in church - yes
- Where do I find a drum transcription to "How great thou are" - yes
- Who will you vote for in November - no
- I learned today that Ron Paul is a drummer - yes

Again, if it has to do with drums, we'll try to discuss it and we'll just be careful. If it doesn't have to do with drums (regarding politics or religion) it's probably ok.

It probably goes without saying that there are other hot-button issues. How will you know if it's ok or not? Well just use common sense. Abortion is hot-button, gun control is hot-button, and so on. If it gets people heated, we don't want it in here anymore. It's already hard enough to deal with people who think Neil Peart or Travis Barker are the greatest drummers on earth.

.... [Tom runs for cover]

[ThePloughman]

I appreciate your clarification. It was necessary Thank you.

[bongobro]

While some of us are still a bit stunned by drummer's announcement, I think we'll undergo a period of adjustment (like there is after any big change), then continue what we do best around here: Talk drums.

I understand why drummer made the change. While the vast majority of us are friendly and supportive of others, there is always the danger turning the forums (and especially the Shoutbox) into a personal soapbox. (Hey, drummer even gave me a friendly warning a few weeks back.)

Many of us in DrumChat play drums in church, and we've shared how we've reached other people through our music. That's awesome, but I noticed as far back as late last year that a few people were getting more militant about a particular denominational point or issue that had little if anything to do with drumming. A couple even began to mix religion with politics. That's great in a political chat room, but is it what we really want here?

As a former radio talk show host, I always watched for callers who had nothing more than a hidden agenda cleverly disguised as a comment (and believe me, we had dozens of callers who fit that description). I kept a fairly tight leash on that; when I recognized one of our "regulars," he or she didn't stay on the air as long as those newbies who had something fresh and insightful to add.

I joined DrumChat because while I have opinions, and in some cases strong opinions, about many newsworthy issues, I wanted to meet other drummers (set and hand drums alike) and compare notes about equipment, musical styles, and so on. That, dudes and ladies, is what DrumChat does best...and I cherish the friendships I've made with my brother and sister drummers...

If you're a bit put out about the changes, hang in there. I noticed when I logged in that we only had a handful of members in the Shoutbox--but several dozen visitors. It might hurt some of you for a bit, but we just might be on the verge of an influx of many more new DrumChatters with even more to talk about than ever!

[JC_GR81]

[QUOTE=drummer;78624]

All of this is no big deal really. If your true intention for being here is to talk drums and make friends then everything is here at your disposal. If you want to promote your political or religious agendas, there are any number of places to do that on the net.

[QUOTE]


I forget....who was it that started that Obama thread anyway?

[kord Jazz]

As far as i am concern i believe the administrator should first of all address the problems first by telling everyone about the topics he or she is to raise in order not to case any form of controversy. And before any new topic is publicized it must first of all be assessed by the administrator. I personally has lernt enough from the the christian drummer forum and would not like it to be thrown away like that!

[pastor_bob]

KJ, it's not that we cannot talk about drumming in a religious setting, so we can still learn from each other. What the administration is trying to avoid is the topics that seem to cause tension in the membership, and we all know that those happen. What the administration noticed is that it happened most in the Christian forum, and on political threads. For that reason, in order to maintain the original vision for Drum Chat (a family friendly drumming community based on mutual respect, love, and support) it was felt that religion and politics should be discussed on other forums around the internet. The developers of Drum Chat have always felt that the world could be a better place if mutual respect, love, and support of one another could be put into practice, rather than thought of as ideals that would be nice. All in all, I think that Drum Chat has a really good think going, and as a Christian, it sure sounds compatible with my own view of the world. I say bravo Drum Chat for maintaining the vision.

[Bish]

I think the bottom line here is we are all guests. The admins and moderators make and enforce the rules.

If something doesn't meet with your acceptance, either get over it or accept it or move on.

[pastor_bob]

I think the bottom line here is we are all guests. The admins and moderators make and enforce the rules.

If something doesn't meet with your acceptance, either get over it or accept it or move on.

That's a good, bottom line kind of point Bish!

[backtodrum]

I can certainly abide by the new rules PB no problem here!