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Thread: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

  1. #1

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    Default ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Hi from tasmania,

    i watched the ratamacue vid at drumbum, coz its got a cool name

    it went R R L R L R L L R L R L (i think) with some accents on the beats
    then the player sped it up so fast..

    i wish to know , please, when playing these rude laments are you allowing the double strokes to bounce or are they hits? indeed the same question could go for paradiddle - are the double strokes hits or bounces? i suppose as you get better there is a finer line between distinguishing a hit and what is a bounce!

    Hope that makes sense..

    roon

    embarassed about being a n00B

  2. #2

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Depends on the tempo. It becomes less and less strike and more and more bounce the faster you go.
    Hope that helps, mate.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Roon, try to control the double strokes at slower tempos. Don't allow them to bounce until you have control over the slower tempos. Working on the double stroke roll separately will help with this.
    - Tom

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  4. #4

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Yeah, get those double strokes smooth and even sounding. Slowing it down is the best way to get it right. Also play on a pillow from time to time to strengthen up those tiny finger muscles and wrist muscles.
    I play, Gretsch Catalina Birch, 7 piece in the vintage sunburst finish.


    RIP, Frank. You will not be forgotten. Missing you, mate

  5. #5

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    y0 - got that ...

    no bounces yet.. its damn hard - this yamaha XPress kit is mostly rubber.. it bounces more than a Kangar00n

  6. #6

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Hi again..

    Ive been banging double strokes for about 1:45, and 45 minutes earlier on a pillow, LOL - this is great advice.. I felt more control when i came back to the plastic drum kit.

    but my left wrist started to ache.. then it started to loosen a bit ,then ache some more.. the right one seemed to cope with it ok ..

    no pain no gain - i am aware of - but how much pain is good pain? no tendonitus for me!

    So i have just a couple of questions please:

    How can i strengthen/control the left more? Is this a common problem?

    How long should i repeat a rudiment for in one session?

    Should i try to accelerate it as it gets smoother within the practice session or just keep concentrating on the sticks at constant lower tempos?

    I hope my questions are not too stupid, just trying to improve

    roon

  7. #7

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Roon, try to control the double strokes at slower tempos. Don't allow them to bounce until you have control over the slower tempos. Working on the double stroke roll separately will help with this.
    HOLA COMO ESTAS DRUMMER(TOM) CREATIVE ARTISTIC DRUMMER ARTIST (CAT) EXCELLENT ADVICE **GRACIAS

  8. #8

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Roon... Look at the sticking pattern...this is called the single Ratamacue. The first two strokes are actually a Drag or Ruff rudiment. If you take those away then you are left with a sixteenth note triplet followed by the eighth note ( rlr l). To understand this, just play two single eight notes and count them as 1 +. The triplet pattern is played on count 1 followed by +. that is what you are listening to. If you just work this out comfortably, then you can add the double stroke Drag to start it. The double stroke is played as part of the "!" count and not seperately. You can click on the Drumming forum where you will find access to Drum rudiments and see this actually written out...it will help!

  9. #9

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    thanks for that Fiacovaz...
    its pretty easy one after all - ill keep playing at at slower tempo, with a hit instead of a bounce to build up strength - but i think i got the rhythm of it now.. rata (tat tat tat)3 tat ratamacue
    on the snare it sounds like a march! but so does all the rudiments
    thanks again,
    have a good one m8.

    roon

  10. #10

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    Hi again..

    Ive been banging double strokes for about 1:45, and 45 minutes earlier on a pillow, LOL - this is great advice.. I felt more control when i came back to the plastic drum kit.

    but my left wrist started to ache.. then it started to loosen a bit ,then ache some more.. the right one seemed to cope with it ok ..

    no pain no gain - i am aware of - but how much pain is good pain? no tendonitus for me!

    So i have just a couple of questions please:

    How can i strengthen/control the left more? Is this a common problem?
    Absolutely common. My left was so flimsy when I started I had no control.
    When you start feeling that fatigue burning feeling, rest your hand and wrist for a few minutes. Stretch it out, give it a little rub, shake it around to loosen it up. As long as the pain is only a burning sensation and not a tearing or ripping sensation, you should be ok.

    Other ways to strengthen the left is to get some left hand sticking exercises. Also, start your rudiments with the left hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    How long should i repeat a rudiment for in one session?

    Should i try to accelerate it as it gets smoother within the practice session or just keep concentrating on the sticks at constant lower tempos?
    Repeat the rudiment for about 5to10min. Increase your speed by about 5bpm as you get comfortable. Are you using a metronome?

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    I hope my questions are not too stupid, just trying to improve
    roon
    You got to ask the questions to improve, mate. Have fun
    I play, Gretsch Catalina Birch, 7 piece in the vintage sunburst finish.


    RIP, Frank. You will not be forgotten. Missing you, mate

  11. #11

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    THanks for that LiveWire
    most helpful!

    i see that you are a AnzaC too.. all the best to ya m8 (make sure you read that in an Ozzy accent)

    to answer your enquiry, i do not often play to a metronome, i have one in my plastic drum kit brain but the electronic pinging noise does nothing for my groove. It sounds like it would be more at home in a submarine depthsounder, so i don't generally use it. i play to other soundtracks and my sense of timing is not too bad.. except if i get excited and im really rocking, but i would not admit it that it was me that accelerated

    I have some more questions please.

    ive been working on my stick grip and watched a good vid at u-tube.
    ive got the fulcrum between the thumb and the index forefinger happening ok, but i have a question relating to the other three fingers.

    If i back the tension off on the other 3 fingers - the stick bounces uncontrollably, so i have been trying to "play the piano" on the end of the stick with the other three fingers to control double bounces, and to get an actual hit from it.
    by applying a tighter grip and a little more tension more tension i get controlled single strike
    similarly, like i already said, less tension = bounce
    when i say tension - i don't mean im trying to squeeze water out of my stick. Its only a little tighter, thats all.
    Closer to the point of enquiry i think is pivoting point. Most of the pivoting is done at the wrist and fingers? or is the power come out of the elbow? the shoulder? I have been trying to get a strike from my other three fingers by squeezing them.
    DOest that sound ok?

    Stick position:

    Once I have the stick in the fulcrum grip. What is the correct hitting position.
    If i hold the sticks to the snare flat , do i need to rotate my forearms, from the elbow, so that the thumbs are exactly on top of the stick or are the thumbs turned slightly inward toward each other? strange Q i know , and the reason i ask is that i feel more stick control with the thumb on the top - but less comfortable.

    thanks for taking the time to chat.
    kind regards to all drummers.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Roon my fellow Aussie. You are not a Hawks supporter are you by any chance? Thats the AFL team I follow. Anyway, back to the drums,

    Generally when I play, I find that i have movement in my wrists and slight movement in my elbows. I get rare movement from my shoulders which is generally when I reach around for the cymbals. I have thumbs turned in slightly with all fingers loosely wrapped around the stick (bad habit is when my little finger comes away at times). I notice that my fingers are used more when bouncing or closer hits to the snare or other drums.

    I think it just comes down to what feels comfortable although not using the right technique could limit peformance
    I play, Gretsch Catalina Birch, 7 piece in the vintage sunburst finish.


    RIP, Frank. You will not be forgotten. Missing you, mate

  13. #13

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    i watched Hawks rip Essendon to shreds last nighT - Buddy beautiful.. i prefer to play music than play the footy tho! and im just loving drumming!

    from what you are saying it appears my sticking approach is OK.. ill keep the fingers loosely wrapped.

    i am also aware that my seating position might be causing me some issues. Im a pretty big bloke, a ruck in my younger days, and my length is in my legs

    I reckon seating position could be really important. Im sitting quite high , such that there is a fair bit of angle on the top of my thighs, im lifiting my leg to kick rather that my heal.

    Another question please, and this is prolly old ground again, When the king is seated on the drum throne, are the top of the thighs horizontal? WHats the best position here?

    really kind of you to help!

  14. #14

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    My thighs are angled so very slightly downward from the hip to the knee. That is my most comfortable position. I really dont know the technicality in seating position and it just might come down to what position would give you the most comfort without getting fatigued too quickly.
    I play, Gretsch Catalina Birch, 7 piece in the vintage sunburst finish.


    RIP, Frank. You will not be forgotten. Missing you, mate

  15. #15

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    yep im way too high... where did i put that drum key?

  16. #16

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    hello again drum friends,

    i tried to change the topic of this thread to " r00n's stupid questions"

    Before i continue, i would like to say that i have really enjoyed reading lots of posts, plenty of laughs, lots of cool drum pictures and trying to be part of it here in this forum. Its a really good forum and i feel welcome and at home here, so i hope you dont mind if i hang around, even though i dont have much rhythm to offer.
    If you have any questions on recording/mics/soundcards/computers/midi/sampling/software/mixing/mastering etc: these are my strengths and i would be happy to help in this area!

    However i need to tap into your knowledge base again.

    A simple question first:

    1. when practicing, how high must the stick go? is it the same height for an accented hit too?

    2. im trying to get a bit more dialogue happening between the bass and the snare,
    like i would like to diddle a bit between the two in 16ths (funk?), while holdin a constant 8th pattern on the hat .. however my hat just wants to follow my kick, that is, the right hand mimicks the right foot more often than not. How do untie the nerves to be able to send the limbs different messages?


  17. #17

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    r00n ,

    1. The higher the stick , the longer its gonna take to hit the drum head and the slower you will be playing. You will want to play more with your wrist and less lifting of your fore arm / elbow . Its much better control of the sticking .

    2.Plain and simple , practice , practice , practice . You must be able to perform 4 different tasks at the same time . You will soon get to the point where you just feel it . Start out with your right stick on the hi hats doing 1& 2& 3& 4& . Left foot keeps your hats closed . Left stick does the snare on 2 and 4 . Your right foot plays the bass on 1 and 3 . This is a basic rock beat that will help you with keeping all your limbs independent of each other . It wont take long at all for it to sink in .

  18. #18

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonefishin View Post
    Plain and simple , practice , practice , practice .
    same old story
    i cant help myself - all i want to do is hit the drums.. i feel the coordination will come very soon.. thanks for the reply.


    btw - how is the fishing in your part of the world?
    We are catching monsters here in OZ

  19. #19

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    same old story
    i cant help myself - all i want to do is hit the drums.. i feel the coordination will come very soon.. thanks for the reply.


    btw - how is the fishing in your part of the world?
    We are catching monsters here in OZ
    r00n , ts only a matter of time ,

    Im on the east coast of the US , and we dont have monsters like that here where I fish . Thats a nice fish , I would love to hook into something like that just one time .

  20. #20

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    its a big spanish mackeral...
    i got to admit that the foto is nearing 5 years old.. We caught 6 of them that day.

    .....but the reason for this post is ...

    i BROKE MY FIRST STICK TODAY!!!!!!!

    and i'm really happy about it..

  21. #21

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    y0 - got that ...

    no bounces yet.. its damn hard - this yamaha XPress kit is mostly rubber.. it bounces more than a Kangar00n
    gotta love those electric kits...
    My Kit - Mapex Saturn 6 Pc., Iron Cobra Double Pedal, 14 Sabian HHX Evolution HH, 20 Avedis Ping Ride, Zildjian 16 Vintage Crash, Zildjian K 17 Thin Dry Crash, Sabian HHX Evolution 16 Crash, Evans Heads, Sennheiser Mikes

  22. #22

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    do i sense an air of sarcasm in that post crazydrummer? LOL

    i do love it
    very much...

  23. #23

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    I could blab on for hours about stick control, it is the single most important lesson you want to get down with the correct tecnique. I first would recommend a private teacher, 2nd I recommend you seriously look at this video and also think about purchasing this dvd or something similar. Nothing worse than re-learning incorrect sticking. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oisX1n...eature=related.
    as for right hand following right foot, try this.
    leave the left hand out for now, and play quarter notes on the hats[1234] with the right hand, the kick plays 1& 3&.[ keeping the right hand at quarter notes is important for this coordination]
    when you get this down smoothly keep the right hand the same and change the kick to &1, &3. SO thats straight in on the kick of AND one. [dont count yourself in with the right hand tapping out 4 beats I mean]
    as for building left hand strength thats easy just lead with your left hand!!! put the right hand on the snare and play the hats with your left. let us know how you get on with this little ditty, all the best Rat. another good excersize is 8th notes between the kick and left hand, set tempo/click to around 40 bpm and hit alternating kick/left hand 8th notes, keep em smooth then adjust the click upwards, also try kick/ left hand double stroke,[like a triplet pattern] PRACTISE TO A CLICK.

  24. #24

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    dave weckl - what a gentleman!

    that vid was very very helpful ... thanks rata!

    im not real certain about the 1e&a musical time notation yet but i will work it out and let you know how i go..

  25. #25

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    Default Re: ratamacue - bounce or hit?

    do you know about crotchet and quaver note lengths? time frames etc?
    if note a simple example is 4/4 time, four notes in the bar would be shown as 1234, or 4 hits of the stick say on the hihat........ eigth notes in the bar would be 1&2&3&4& or 8 hits of the stick in the time/ measure .
    16th notes would be described as 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a etc etc all the way to 16, you are still counting four to the bar but your stick are hitting more notes within that measure,
    I hope this simplifies what guy's are on about when they say im playing 32nd notes etc, wikipedia may be of some help defining time measures and note lengths, let me know if you need more clarification.

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