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Thread: Trigger modules

  1. #1
    Shazane Guest

    Default Trigger modules

    Hey guys, I've never been here before, but I figure I should discuss triggers with the experienced electronic players, since an electronic kit is basically nothing but triggers.

    I only need to trigger my bass drum, because it becomes impossible or unfeasible to amplify it by micing above 250-300 BPM

    I've heard this is a great module, the Alesis DM5

    I think the random sampling could be implemented to make a really realistic triggered sound.

    There's also this one

    Not as many features, but cheaper and probably easier to use.

    And this is the trigger I'm considering

    I'm also wondering if there can be technical complications with running a Roland trigger into an Alesis module.
    Last edited by drummer; 06-12-2008 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #2

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Hey Shazane! I have a DM5 module and it works great! I really don't think their would be a problem running a Roland trigger in an Alesis module, after all they are just triggers. But I have no experience with Roland so I wouldn't really know much about it. I personally made my own triggers from scratch and so far they are keeping up! I'm sure someone on this forum will will know more!

    Good Luck!
    Gretsch219
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  3. #3

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    what are triggers? ive heard of them, but i don;t know what they are

  4. #4

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    any trigger should be ok with any module... however problems will arise if you have a dual or triple zone pad/trigger.. and you connect this incorrectly to a brain. Triggers/pads are connected with a standard mono 1/4 inch connector but if you have a dual/triple zone you need to connect it with a stereo lead.

    Also brains are tuned to specific type of triggers. My point is that roland are going to test their brain gear with roland triggers, so even though they will work "across product" the brain is tuned to that trigger. Its prettty easy to tune a brain to the sensitivity, but i have read that the triggers never work quite as well as in their own brain. I can not comment on this further, but it doesnt really have a ring of truth about it. even the cheapest brains can be taught!

    Once a pad or trigger is struck, the energy is transformed into electrical information which is then transformed into midi data, inside the brain.. and the midi data is forwarded to a sampler. The midi data only contains what drum you hit, a note number, and how hard you hit it - thats all. The sampler holds recordings of real drums and synths percussion noises. The better modules will have samples for different stroke velocities.. such as pp to ff on the snare or kick, and the cheaper modules just change the volume of the one sample recording and are not nearly as realistic. The best are computer based drum modules that have 32 velocities for each drum - a lot of data!

    The DM5 from alesis is an excellent drum brain.. and has multi sample technology. FOr your application it could be a bit of an overkill as it has 18 trigger inputs and you only require 1 for the kick?

    The roland tmc6 is only going to convert the electrical impulse from the peizo trigger to midi data for you... what is will not do is make sound!... there is no sampler part of the chain here. You would need to connect this to something else that makes sound.

    May i ask why "it becomes impossible or unfeasible to amplify it by micing above 250-300 BPM?" set a compressor on the kick to 40 - 60 ms with a lower threshold and higher ratio - see if that helps. shape that kick. Thats the cheapest option.

    did you notice that for an extra few dollars you can get an entire e-kit from alesis, with all the trigger pads, high hat controllers, DM5 brain, everything. perhaps you could incorporate this into you acoustic kit? LOL im not a sales rep... just noticed that as a good option!

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    I have to agree with r00n, with just a little more you can buy an Alesis Kit with a DM5 Module:
    Or if your looking for cheaper Alesis ones, just look on ebay. I spent only $202, for an Alesis DM5, 1 snare, 6 toms, and 2 bass drum triggers from Trigger Perfect! Pretty good deal!!!

    DeathMetalDrummer, a trigger has a piezo, which is microphone-like. They recieve electrical signals from the pad or drum and send it to the module which then converts it to the assigned sound. That's basically all it is.
    Last edited by drummer; 06-12-2008 at 10:41 PM.
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  6. #6
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    I know it seems like a waste to have 18 inputs and only use one, but I don't know what else I'd use them for, since with the techniques I use all over the kit I don't think the triggered sound would be accurate. I'm mainly interested in the sophistication of it, due to constant variation in dynamics.

    Currently though I don't have any use for electronic drums, I'm sure I can find something to do with them later, and use up a few more inputs.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    May i ask why "it becomes impossible or unfeasible to amplify it by micing above 250-300 BPM?"

    you rock shazane thats really very very fast kicking!!!

  8. #8
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Just purchased the DM5 with two electronic pads, cables and mounts for $220, saving over $250

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazane View Post
    Just purchased the DM5 with two electronic pads, cables and mounts for $220, saving over $250
    Wow great deal!!! Now all you need to do is hook up the bass
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  10. #10
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    I have a question though... if it's using several different samples from different triggers what kind of amp do I use? A bass amp can handle higher frequencies much better than a normal amp can handle lower ones, correct?

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    May i ask why "it becomes impossible or unfeasible to amplify it by micing above 250-300 BPM?" set a compressor on the kick to 40 - 60 ms with a lower threshold and higher ratio - see if that helps. shape that kick. Thats the cheapest option.

    ditto....do some work with your bass drum, get a really good mike, and tell your soundman to read a few books!!!!
    My Kit - Mapex Saturn 6 Pc., Iron Cobra Double Pedal, 14 Sabian HHX Evolution HH, 20 Avedis Ping Ride, Zildjian 16 Vintage Crash, Zildjian K 17 Thin Dry Crash, Sabian HHX Evolution 16 Crash, Evans Heads, Sennheiser Mikes

  12. #12
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by crazydrummer View Post
    ditto....do some work with your bass drum, get a really good mike, and tell your soundman to read a few books!!!!
    Really, above 300 even George Kollias, who always applies considerable force, cannot work with mics alone, they will pick up the tone, yes, but not enough accent to separate individual hits, a fast quintuplet for example just sounds like "THUUUUUMP"

    A really good mic costs as much as a trigger anyway. Well I'll see how this goes, I'll have tried both worlds soon.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    congrats on the purchase shazane - welcome to the marvelous world of music technology!
    if you need any help with it i am pretty familiar
    quintuplets at 300 .... whooooah.. id like to hear that
    ooh yeah - dont just get a bass amp - you will not hear the cymbals and snare - get a keyboard amp (or two if you want stereo).. if you are playing live.. just send the outs to the PA!

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Good luck with your triggers my friend...hope it works for you...
    My Kit - Mapex Saturn 6 Pc., Iron Cobra Double Pedal, 14 Sabian HHX Evolution HH, 20 Avedis Ping Ride, Zildjian 16 Vintage Crash, Zildjian K 17 Thin Dry Crash, Sabian HHX Evolution 16 Crash, Evans Heads, Sennheiser Mikes

  15. #15
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    congrats on the purchase shazane - welcome to the marvelous world of music technology!
    if you need any help with it i am pretty familiar
    quintuplets at 300 .... whooooah.. id like to hear that
    ooh yeah - dont just get a bass amp - you will not hear the cymbals and snare - get a keyboard amp (or two if you want stereo).. if you are playing live.. just send the outs to the PA!
    I can hit at least 5 in a second, which should be exactly 300 BPM

  16. #16
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    I'm having all kinds of trouble setting this thing up.

    Mainly I can't get it to trigger often enough, like with double bass it will only trigger every other stroke, I tried each pedal individually and every hit was triggered, but together it doesn't pick up everything.

    And if I change it to correct this problem it starts retriggering.
    Last edited by Shazane; 06-28-2008 at 02:27 PM.

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Maybe the Gain on it is too low? Try pressing EXT TRIG, push the right arrow twice, and turn the VALUE knob clockwise. You should see the # under GAIN moving up. And if the volume now, is too loud. Click the MIX button and under and the # under VOL should be blinking, lower it down with the VALUE knob.

    Try that and tell us how it turns out.
    Gretsch219
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  18. #18
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    If I turn the gain up enough to pick up every dynamic level, the highest dynamics retrigger like crazy, and if I turn up the decay to counter this, it doesn't trigger every hit because there isn't enough time in between.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Trigger modules

    So you've tried to turn up the gain at the most minimum without it missing a beat or effecting the dynamic level, right? Beacuse if it's too high, it'll double trigger like crazy! If I remember right, don't you have to turn the decay down? Beacuse if that's too high, it'll aid in the excess triggering, I think. I have never had any of these problems, I hope it helped!
    Good Luck,
    Gretsch219
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  20. #20
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by Gretsch219 View Post
    So you've tried to turn up the gain at the most minimum without it missing a beat or effecting the dynamic level, right? Beacuse if it's too high, it'll double trigger like crazy! If I remember right, don't you have to turn the decay down? Beacuse if that's too high, it'll aid in the excess triggering, I think. I have never had any of these problems, I hope it helped!
    Good Luck,
    Gretsch219
    If the decay is too low it will perceive each crest of the sound wave as a hit, what the decay parameter does is waits a certain amount of time before letting the signal decay, and setting it just right will keep up with the frequency, however if it is too high, it will not perceive another real hit during the decay time. That's what the manual says anyway.

    Well it gets a little better everytime I try to improve it, I hope I can get it perfect by Tuesday, and if not I hope I have a very forgiving crowd.

  21. #21

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    So how's it comming together???
    “The doctor listens in with a stethoscope and hears sounds of a warpath Indian drum.”

  22. #22
    Shazane Guest

    Default Re: Trigger modules

    Quote Originally Posted by Gretsch219 View Post
    So how's it comming together???
    It worked fantastically at the show last night, it sounded amazing through the PA!!!!

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