Knife & Gun Crime

[Dustin]

This was originally in another thread but it did not seem right to continue that on a thead that was about another DC achievments...



Originally Posted by Dustin
oh I dont know - maybe we should arm the police in this country. That would soon stop the knife crime problems we are currently having in Britian
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Originally posted by Ether The Frog

TBH, media scare. That's all I feel the cause of this epidemic is. The media gets ahold of it, the public get scared, everyone and their dog gets armed up to the teeth because they don't want it to happen to them, and it just takes one ******* (sorry for swearing, but in all honesty, that's what they are, and in the circumstances, I can find no other word to describe them without retaining the utmost disgust I have for these awful people) to set a match to the fire. It's appalling. Again the media blows something out of proportion; normally we'd be able to deal with this, but because we hate Labour as a nation so much at the minute, the media is putting a spin on it making it look like it's out of control. Look at the tributes for all the victims and the amount of rallies that are going against knife crime. It seems to suggest that people don't want these knife guys on the streets. Good. Labour's plan to deal with this is rubbish, the Conservatives have the right idea.
As for arming the police, all that's going to do is provoke the hard man who now feels nervous, but he's ok cos he's got a knife, into stabbing someone and then getting shot. It's silly. The crackdown needs to be focused on the communities where it's prevalent instead of showing people their victims. It won't stop people carrying knifes and attacking in the first place. I also think media attention should be more dignified and less tabloid in it's approach to this epidemic, but hey; we'll never change all those Piers Moron's at Canary Wharf.

Just my thoughts on the subject.
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Today, on Ethel The Frog...

[Dustin]

I am far more hardline on this subject. The Police in Britain should be armed in my opinion and should be able to do their job without mountains of paperwork and red tape. The punishments for carrying weapons are a joke If you are caught with a knife or gun it should be two years inside minimum

there are plenty of unused army camps around - turn them into boot camps!

[TURTLINATOR]

OK so I realize that I am not from the uk but it seems a little pointless that civilians can carry guns and the police can't. Say a murderer breaks out in the streets with a gun. Your police can't get anywhere near them without getting shot. Just an opinion I am sure theres a good reason.

[Shazane]

I know I'm not from the UK either, but...

When I went to Honduras... their cops carry M16s, their security guards carry shotguns. There is still ALOT of crime and violence going on. It's a deterrent, not a solution.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" -Leia Organa

[quikstang2]

I think it's kinda whack that your cops don't have firearms. It's definitely a deterrent.

I also agree with the media creating hysteria when it doesn't exist. There always seems to be some new craze to worry about, and it somehow never was a problem before, nor will it be in 3 months. The news is entertainment these days, so I'd rather watch the comedy channel.

[gonefishin]

Your country should have never turned in their guns to the government , but its a shame its too late now . That is one of our constitutional rights and I feel bad for you . The gun control in your country was supposed to put a stop to violence and it dint work, now the innocent pay the price .

[Bish]

Your country should have never turned in their guns to the government , but its a shame its too late now . That is one of our constitutional rights and I feel bad for you . The gun control in your country was supposed to put a stop to violence and it dint work, now the innocent pay the price .

Gun control will never work. It only deters law abiding citizens. Criminals will always have the upper hand cuz they don't have to abide by the laws.

Who doesn't understand this besides the government?

[Vinnysimmo mk:II]

I know I'm not from the UK either, but...

When I went to Honduras... their cops carry M16s, their security guards carry shotguns. There is still ALOT of crime and violence going on. It's a deterrent, not a solution.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" -Leia Organa

Very true. Fighting fire with fire isn't the solution.

[gonefishin]

Gun control will never work. It only deters law abiding citizens. Criminals will always have the upper hand cuz they don't have to abide by the laws.

Who doesn't understand this besides the government?

so very true

[TURTLINATOR]

Very true. Fighting fire with fire isn't the solution.

Then what is the answer? Taking the guns away from the citzens just prevents them from defending themselves. And since the cops don't arm themselves, noone can stop anyone thats good with a gun and decides to use it the wrong way.

[gonefishin]

Then what is the answer? Taking the guns away from the citzens just prevents them from defending themselves. And since the cops don't arm themselves, noone can stop anyone thats good with a gun and decides to use it the wrong way.

people just are not afraid to go to jail , why would they when they get free education , free clothing , free meals , free cable tv , free medical care........................ sounds like a country club to m , I say make it so criminals are afraid to go to jail and then theres hope of a decline in violence

[MetalManMonkey]

As a London Teenager, i reckon the only real solution is to make the penalties alot steeper. Forget all of this community project bull, give them something to think about...

[Ethel_The_Frog]

Taking the guns away from the citzens just prevents them from defending themselves.

THAT'S WHY EVERYONE IS DYING!! Because a few people believe they have to defend themselves and then the power of having a weapon goes to their head and they can't control their actions! Having a gun does not make you invincible, it will just make you more likely to kill/be killed.

The cops have weapons. They just aren't like guns that kill, more stuff that incapacitates and seriously hurt someone. Why would you kill someone, even if it was your job? That's not the job of the police, the police's job is to protect the city and it's occupants at whatever cost; even if it means seriously hurting people.

Shooting criminals is about as helpful and useful as smoking money.

[quikstang2]

Then what is the answer?

Hire ninjas and allow them to carry katanas (I hear there's some sort of proposed sword ban in the UK)... not that they need the katanas, but it would just be cooler to watch them cut the criminals' guns in half... not that you'd actually see them (because you can't see ninjas), but you get the idea.

[TURTLINATOR]

Ok so instead of taking the murderers and getting rid of them permanantly you give them a sentence of a few years in a jail where they get free food clean clothes and a bed every night, or community service, and then put them back in the streets to kill more people. That makes much more sense.

[TURTLINATOR]

Hire ninjas and allow them to carry katanas (I hear there's some sort of proposed sword ban in the UK)... not that they need the katanas, but it would just be cooler to watch them cut the criminals' guns in half... not that you'd actually see them (because you can't see ninjas), but you get the idea.

Dude, thats the greatest thing I have ever heard. You should run for president and replace all the cops with ninjas.

[Bish]

and then put them back in the streets to kill more people. That makes much more sense.

And they do, too.

[ratmycue]

hmmmmm, This thread could get touchy......how much gun crime is in the uk? not soo much the last time I checked [ correct me if I am wrong] are guns easily accessible to the average Joe.... NO?
How much gun crime in the States? huge problem the last I heard!! are guns easily available? yep, everyone and there dog has a right to arms!! does not matter if its a gun or a knife though...they both can kill, just a gun does a much better job of it!! it is our society that is on a serious decline Im afraid. gun law or no gun law!! As for easy life in Prison!! its not all roses at all prisons.

[backtodrum]

I will way in on this for my 2 cents, Guns don't kill, people do. The biggest problem I see in the American way of thinking is that there is no respect or reverence for life being taught in allot of the homes these days and that fighting and gun use are the way to solve conflict. Ideally the gang problems in this country and adolescents growing up with a "live for today" attitude because there is no hope of anything better tomorrow are perpetuating the problem here. I would never even consider solving a problem with someone with a fire arm, but there are those that if you even look at them wrong way they will shoot you without any thought as to the consequences. Until we change that mindset in the homes of this country and teach our children that life is sacred and to be protected, the problem is going to continue to grow.

[Dustin]

My point on this was that the British police should carry guns - for far too long they have been prevented from doing there job with mindless liberal rules that are just plain crazy.

As a sub point - how many of you would not think twice about hitting an intruded in your home with a baseball bat or something similar? i would (I have a pick axe handle and a pool cue kept handy just in case!). But did you know if I did this act, i would be up on a charge of GBH (not sure what the U.S equivalent is!) or even attempted murder yet the intruder that could be a rapist, a burglar or god knows what would probably get away with a caution!!!

The British penal system is in disarray! Criminals have more rights that the innocent and we are slowly going down the crapper.....

[ratmycue]

hmm, I think if you hit the bloke on the noggin with a pick axe the chap would hardly be presenting a viable case against you in court , me thinks the most he would muster may be, blibble blibble wibble wobble blah, thats if he is still alive!! Plus the Police do have access to guns in certain circumstances in the UK. I do understand your frustrations buddy, but we are all on this small marble trying to get along I dont think arming police 24/7 will really be productive. Maybe we can call on our most trusted and knowlegeable pastor B on this one.. hey PB u got any thoughts, sorry to burden you buddy.

[backtodrum]

I would shoot someone without hesitation that was an intruder in my home that had the intention of harming one of my family members. That is a different situation to me than to be mad at someone and decide in anger that I was going to shoot them, or a road rage incident etc. There are times when the use of a weapon is appropriate and necessary, be it a knife or ball bat, or gun! Someone that breaks into my home with intentions to harm my children of my wife will die for attempting it, period.

By the way Dustin, we don't have laws like that here. If an intruder means you or your family harm then you have a right to protect yourself. With that being said, if you come into your home and it is being burglarized and the intruder is fleeing upon you entering the house, say he is going out a window and is not a threat to you or your family and means you no harm and you shoot him anyway, then you are going to be held responsible for that. I have had police officers tell if you shoot an intruder you need to make sure you kill him and make sure he is in your house when you do. Because they can bring suit against you for shooting them and of course they will testify that they were not going to hurt anyone. I have seen lawsuits from homeowners on this and they have lost and big judgements were paid for intruders that stated that they were not going to hurt anyone and that they were trying to flee and were shot anyway.

[livewire80]

Some crazy people out there. People just totally lose the plot. Punishments need to be much greater than what they are in some places.

[Vinnysimmo mk:II]

THAT'S WHY EVERYONE IS DYING!! Because a few people believe they have to defend themselves and then the power of having a weapon goes to their head and they can't control their actions! Having a gun does not make you invincible, it will just make you more likely to kill/be killed.

The cops have weapons. They just aren't like guns that kill, more stuff that incapacitates and seriously hurt someone. Why would you kill someone, even if it was your job? That's not the job of the police, the police's job is to protect the city and it's occupants at whatever cost; even if it means seriously hurting people.

Shooting criminals is about as helpful and useful as smoking money.

We have very simular viewpoints on this issue, me and you.

[Shazane]

THAT'S WHY EVERYONE IS DYING!! Because a few people believe they have to defend themselves and then the power of having a weapon goes to their head and they can't control their actions! Having a gun does not make you invincible, it will just make you more likely to kill/be killed.

There are several guns within a hundred feet of me, I haven't shot anyone, noone's tried to shoot me.

If you can't restrain yourself, it's not the gun's fault, it's YOURS.