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Thread: Paiste

  1. #1

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    Default Paiste

    I was wondering why Paiste uses B8 bronze in their higher end cymbals (2002, Rude, Giant Beat) when the other major company's (Zildjian, Sabian, Meinl) are using B20 bronze in their higher end cymbals. I always thought that the B20 cymbals sounded better than the B8 cymbals (For instance, compare A Customs to ZHT). Anyone know why this is?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Paiste

    ZHT is B12, I meant compare A customs to ZXT.

  3. #3

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    That is interesting, I have never noticed, but it makes allot of since what you are saying. I would be interested to see what those in the know on this have to say. I would bet it has to do with cast cymbals with a B8 formula, verses a sheet of B8 formula bronze and stamped cymbals. But I really don't know I am just guessing.
    Last edited by backtodrum; 07-23-2008 at 02:41 PM.

  4. #4

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    Thats pretty interesting, I have no idea why too but they sound good though
    Paiste Posse
    14inch 2002 series Sound Edge Hi-hats
    16inch and 18inch Signature series Fast crashes
    20inch 3000 series Ride
    18inch PST5 series China

    Pearl Forum Series drum set
    Pearl Chad Smith Signature snare(steel shell)
    Tama Iron Cobra Chrome

    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Paiste

    Maybe Paiste company has a secret about it
    Keep On Drumming

  6. #6

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    basicaly its just the way they started doing things and they have been slow to experement with there alloys.
    play till the day i die. it makes more sense that way.

    "You should set up your drums around the toilet. You know you must use it everyday and lets be realistic, nothing better is going on when your sitting on there. Why not take care of business and play the drums." silver dragon sound

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Paiste

    Copy Saturn...Seems like PAISTE has a secret formula about it....

    So compare Rude and ZBT....
    They got a huge gap.....
    My Kit :
    TAMA Imperialstar Midnight Blue
    REMO Encore Heads....
    Meinl Cowbell
    16" Zildjian Avedis Thin Crash
    16" Paiste Alpha Medium Crash
    20" Meinl Rakes Medium Ride
    14" Paiste 3000 Rude Hi-Hat
    8" PST-5 Splash
    6" Meinl Classic Splash
    10" WUHAN S series Splash
    16" ZHT EFX
    17" Stagg China
    P122 Double bass pedal

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Paiste

    Paiste definately has their own secret mix like Cn8 something something..
    I just made the switch from my high end Ziljians to all Paiste Alpha and 802 (16" med crash) All I know is that even the Alphas sound betterto ME than my Zildjians did!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesizmor View Post
    Paiste definately has their own secret mix like Cn8 something something..
    I just made the switch from my high end Ziljians to all Paiste Alpha and 802 (16" med crash) All I know is that even the Alphas sound betterto ME than my Zildjians did!
    Its CuSn8 which is the chemical formula: Cu = Copper, Sn = Tin. Sn8 means 8% tin content. Which is the same as B8, as in Bronze with an 8% tin content (bronze is another name for copper and tin). They might just say CuSn8 so that people think it's better or something but it is definitely just B8. They also call it 2002 bronze, maybe because it is used in their 2002 line?

    I'm not a chemist or metal expert or anything, that info is just from my research.

    Totti, I believe that the difference between ZBT and Rude is that ZBT is sheet metal while Rude is cast, which makes a big difference...I was only wondering why Paiste uses B8 (or CuSn8), and how it sounds good even with the inferior metal. I would like to hear from a cymbal expert. Are their any cymbal experts on DrumChat?

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Paiste

    It's the same alloy BUT are 2002 cast instead of pressed out of sheet metal? I would imagine that casting the cymbal blanks versus just stamping them out of a sheet of bronze can have a drastic effect on sound.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Paiste

    Casting the cymbals is the first step to making a better product. The lathing and/or hammering is what will make the distinctive sound that we all yearn for. This is why there are so many more to choose from today...a cymbal for every specific purpose.
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

    http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...vaz/TheSet.jpg

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Paiste

    they use b8 bronze on cheaper cymbals because b8 is a cheaper metal to make because tin is quite expensive. so to cut down prices entry level cymbals are made from b8. b20 bronze has always been the standard metal to use for cymbals because it's easy to work on than b8 because it's more malleable. paiste started experimenting with different alloys and started the 2oo2 line with b8 bronze. obviously this is a pro cymbal. so there's no quality difference(excluding cast and sheet) it's just less work has been put into b8's and zbt's - less hammering and lathing. meinl then came along and started to make cymbals out of b12 & b10 alloys. now they cover the whole range of b20, b12, b10 and b8. each alloy has a different sound. basically b20 is dark and b8 bright. also they make their generation x line out of FX9 alloy (69 percent copper, 15 percent manganese, 15
    percent zinc, 1 percent aluminum). and all of those cymbal lines(except classis, mcs and hcs) are pro cymbals! check out the meinl website for more info. click on the 4 is more.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Paiste

    visual explanation...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Paiste

    So are 2002's cast B8 bronze or are they sheet metal cymbals with more time and effort devoted to hammering and lathing?

  15. #15

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    they're most likely cast. i doubt they are made from sheet.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack's_art View Post
    they use b8 bronze on cheaper cymbals because b8 is a cheaper metal to make because tin is quite expensive. so to cut down prices entry level cymbals are made from b8. b20 bronze has always been the standard metal to use for cymbals because it's easy to work on than b8 because it's more malleable. paiste started experimenting with different alloys and started the 2oo2 line with b8 bronze. obviously this is a pro cymbal. so there's no quality difference(excluding cast and sheet) it's just less work has been put into b8's and zbt's - less hammering and lathing. meinl then came along and started to make cymbals out of b12 & b10 alloys. now they cover the whole range of b20, b12, b10 and b8. each alloy has a different sound. basically b20 is dark and b8 bright. also they make their generation x line out of FX9 alloy (69 percent copper, 15 percent manganese, 15
    percent zinc, 1 percent aluminum). and all of those cymbal lines(except classis, mcs and hcs) are pro cymbals! check out the meinl website for more info. click on the 4 is more.
    4 months later, someone finally answers my question! Thanks for all the info.

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Paiste

    Quote Originally Posted by jack's_art View Post
    they're most likely cast. i doubt they are made from sheet.
    Paiste dosn't do the process like that, hence why they have completely diffrent cymbals, that sound very diffrent from the Sabian And Zildjian's. Notice how Sabian and Zildjian sound similar?

    They both use the metal pie, then roll it out to a crude looking, shape. Then they pop the bell up, put the hole in, and cut the shape into a circle. From the circle they grind the edges down, and hammer it into cymbal shape. Then lathing, and you have a cymbal.

    Paiste starts with a disk, not a cast, and pops the bell and hole right away. Then they hammer it, soak it in acid, and lathe. So there is no original cast, They can get away with that with B8, You can't make a B8 cast (I'm pretty sure)

    That just goes to show, its not the type of metal you use, its how much love you give it. Anything can sound professional, I've seen guys make ZBT rides into professional sounding rides. There is no "better" metal, except for brass, I think we can cut out brass.

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