Recording frustration! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

[1DrumBum]

I cannot stop beating my head against the wall. Nothing has ever frustrated / irritated / aggravated me more than trying to build my own recording setup to record my whole band. Here is my situation:

I purchased:

1 new dual core laptop computer
1 Behringer 2442FX mixer with USB output
1 CAD 7 piece drum mic set
3 Shure condensor mics
5 mic stands
10 mic cords
4 speaker / moniter cables
Sony ACID Music studio

Grand total: $1900

Results: hours upon hours of anger/frustration/irritation/disbelief and confusion.
Total songs recorded: 0!

I'll start off with the fact that when I bought the mixer with USB, nobody bothered to let me know that USB can only record 2 channels (stereo)! (Thank you for looking out for me Guitar Center! I told you what I wanted to do and you gave me false information AND will not take back the merchandise. You have just permanently lost me as a customer and I will be more than happy to spread the word.)

Next, Sony ACID is the quirkiest program I have ever had the delight of attempting to use. I get it all set up to record my drums. Works great (even though it is only in stereo). Next, I add a mic to the bass. It now will not record any signal at all. OK, start over. 4 hours later, it will finally record my drums again. Add the bass, works great. Add a guitar, works great. Add the other guitar, no longer records again! What!?!? Spend the next 2 hours trying to figure out how plugging in a mic can reset the entire ACID program. Give up for the day.

Next day, tear it all apart and start from scratch again. It will not record anything. A few days later I sit down and try to figure out what is up and it works perfectly without me doing anything to it. OK?!?! So I add the vocals. Works great. Cool! I'm ready for when the band gets here.

Band shows up and I show them what I have done. They think it is great and are impressed that I was able to do it myself. Turn it on to record and.....Nothing! What the heck is going on here?!?! I tear it down and set it all back up (while the band waits) and still nothing. Scratch recording until next week. Next day, I try to figure out what is going on and not only will it not record, but it will not even play back what I had originally recorded. I load an MP3 file into it and it won't even play that!

Soooo.......I tear it all down, reinstall ACID and it will not record or playback unless I plug my CD player into it and then it will only recognize the CD player, not the mixer. I've had 2 other people look at it that have set up their own studios and all they can do is scratch their heads wondering what is up.

I give up.

Now my mixer is for sale, I will give Sony ACID to whoever is crazy enough to attempt to make it work (good luck! I hope you have eternity to sit in front of your computer).

I'm going to purchase a Presonus FP-10 Firewire interface with Cubase LE. Has anybody worked with this? Does it allow you to do your multitracking on a virtual desktop like it says it does and how hard is it to set up? I'm at my wits end here and any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Mysterious Stan]

Ya i feel your frustration. Weve had problems recording aswel. I recently bough the xenyx 2222fx mixer and i love it. Its taken a while to get used to, its just the leveles we cant get right. It cant record all onto separate tracks but for what i want i dont really need to. I got it mainly cause of the price. I cant help with the Presonus FP-10 Firewire but ive heard very good things about them! Im sure someone can help

[Northern Redneck]

16 channel Peavey board, stereo out to line in on computer using a cord from the dollarstore. 2 SM57's hanging from the ceiling, 1 SM58 for vocals, and Audacity will give you this:

http://media.putfile.com/Proud-Mary-89

[kay-gee]

Hat's off to the electo-digital revolution. In 1978, we hung 2 mics in a room, plugged into some mickey mouse mixer and into a reel to reel tape recorder. To hear it today, it is still some of the finest music I've heard. I don't get it!

all the best...

[drumrbychoice]

1DB-
Hang in there... Man, There's nothin like a manmade object that drives a guy straight up the wall. Look up (roon) befor ya do anything too drastic. He's purdy slick with the rec equip. Software..? Oh man, Don't get me started! I use a program that won't start encoding until you hit the "stop encoding" tab 2 times..? Huh... What..? Yup, Oh I know, It's the electricity current differential... No, It's how the sun shines differently in your area... Works for the rest of the entire world except us..? Drives an all grown up man exactly nutz... Hang in there budro, It'll be somethin real weird and knock ya over simple. Try to run on roon for sure.

[ratmycue]

1DB-
Hang in there... Man, There's nothin like a manmade object that drives a guy straight up the wall. Look up (roon) befor ya do anything too drastic. He's purdy slick with the rec equip. Software..? Oh man, Don't get me started! I use a program that won't start encoding until you hit the "stop encoding" tab 2 times..? Huh... What..? Yup, Oh I know, It's the electricity current differential... No, It's how the sun shines differently in your area... Works for the rest of the entire world except us..? Drives an all grown up man exactly nutz... Hang in there budro, It'll be somethin real weird and knock ya over simple. Try to run on roon for sure.

can you post a link? is it the piano payer? roon?

[rmandelbaum]

I have used the Presounus Firepod, it is a great device, and Cubase LE will do almost anything you need it to do.


I would maybe hold off on selling that mixer though. You may want to sub mix. ;-)

[1DrumBum]

Well, I decided to mess with it some more and found out that the ACID program had issues with importing from USB, so I dumped it. I went back to using Audacity, downloaded the new Behringer drivers, and got those problems fixed.

Then I really started looking at all my connections and settings and found out that one of the stereo cables had a short in it, which created a permanent clipping issue, causing my mix to not make it to the USB interface to start with!

I'm still not happy with only being able to record one channel (stereo), but at least I can record something now. I am still going to purchase the Presonus FP-10 very soon. And you are right rmandelbaum, I am going to keep the mixer to use for sub-mixing.

Sorry about the rant when I started this thread. I was standing on my front porch with my laptop in hand yesterday, wondering how far down the street I could throw it, but I figured it would be better to type out my frustration than to act on it.

Thanks guys! You rock!

[bongobro]

Good to hear you've solved your problems, 1DB...I'm still learning how to work with Audacity on relatively simple projects...may be checkin' with you on a few tips!

[funkymcstain]

i have a much more simple device (tascam 24trk allin one recorder/burner). and have suffered hours upon hours of frustration figuring it out. it is a handy unit, but the effects and tools are garbage sounding. i need to find a good and easy software to use for final mixing.

[lowendgenerator]

I'm going to purchase a Presonus FP-10 Firewire interface with Cubase LE. Has anybody worked with this? Does it allow you to do your multitracking on a virtual desktop like it says it does and how hard is it to set up? I'm at my wits end here and any help would be greatly appreciated!

You are much better off with a firewire interface and a copy of cubase. In my studio setup we used a Mackie Mixer for preamps into an M-Audio 1814 interface into Sonar6. We were able to grab up to 10 tracks at once with the firewire, it made recording drums a pleasant experience. Cubase and Sonar are from the same parent company I believe, so they should have the same multi-track capabilities.

What kind of hard drives did you put in the machine? SATA drives are the fastest, and IMO will give you the best performance. I'm not sure if a laptop was really the way to go, they have a limited amount of space, and your hardware options are also trimmed. For instance, you can only put one drive in a laptop, but you can stack several in a full sized case. Ideally you would want to have a separate drive for recording, so that the program isn't trying to access the same disc you are recording a huge amount of data to. Also, you're better off running Windows XP over Vista. Vista takes up a ton of resources with it's sweet GUI and hefty processes list. XP can run much slimmer and faster.

+1 to never listening to Guitar Center dweebs, those guys are hired mostly for how the look, not what they know or how well they help the consumer.

[Mysterious Stan]

That what i kinda miss about not being American or living in America, this whole in joke thing about Guitar Centre. It sounds like a complete joke to me, id love to witness the farce firsthand. Still im probably the kind of person who wouldnt be sure enough about myself to question what they say so its probably a good thing i dont!

Btw, congrats on sorting the stuff out!

[rmandelbaum]

I personally have a Tascam DM-24, this give me 16 pre amps. I also have motorized faders that control the faders in Cubase. I do have a few bucks invested in my rig but it works really well.

[Greenmonster206]

Zoom H2 baby. Like a Geico commercial...so easy...a caveman could do it.

[drummerdavie]

i just got the pre sunus fire studio project, and cubase, my only problem cubase will not start the drivers for the firestudio, the fire stuido will imput into the computers, i can mix it in there, but i cant get it over to cubase, im trying to pick up a new software (protools) but does anybody know how to solve the problem with the presounus?

[Beasty101]

I may not be the best drummer out there but I do know a thing or two about computers and sound.

Why such a fancy computer?? your mixing sound not video. A old hand Me down 1.2GHz 512mb with a sound blaster card that supports many channels works just as good. You could actually build a PC just for recording and it would not cost you more then 500 bucks. Alot of times those cards come with mixing programs.

I do not care what kind of program you have on your computer. Unless your machine supports multiple channels You will not get multiple channels. That's why I suggest you get a Sound Card. There not all that expensive. Plus the sound quality going through your programs will increase dramatically.

[rmandelbaum]

You have to go into VST connections at the top of you tool bar in Cubase and set up your
inputs and output. Then you select them for each track as you record.

The ASIO driver will take care of the multi track piece.

You do not want a sound card, if this is going to be a dedicated recording system you will want to pull it out. If it is on the mother board you will want to disable it.

If you are interested I have a great document from Tascam on how to configure windows to preform best for a DAW.


And yes you do want as much horse power as you can afford.

As you start editing and adding effects you will need that horsepower.

The Cubase forum is a great place to learn about all of this.

[Beasty101]

Ive been dealing with computers for over 20+years. My first one was a radio shack and commodore, you do not need a lot of muscle when working with sound mixers and recorders. Especially if you are also using external equipment to help with the process.

Also buying factory made computers is actually the worse thing you could do. There Motherboards and other hardware are usually cheap made or under powered for the price. 3 years ago I bought a computer for $1200+ after taxes. 3.06 Gigahertz processor,512mb 160gb hard drive with a 280watt power supply dvd r/rw and CD rom.

Just last month I built my own computer I bought the Tower, motherboard,power supply,ram,sound card,3 disk drives. Total cost was just over $570. My Machine is a Intel Pentium e5200 2.5ghz Duel core with 4 gigs of ram, 250gig hard drive, 2 sata 22X dvd r dvd Burner's. 2 cd roms with creative sound blaster x-fi and a 9800gtx pro and a 500watt power supply. It took me a little over 3 hours to get everything up and running. Now if I had forgone the sound card and the video card and gotten a PreSonus Audio recorder for the same price. as the othe video card and sound card.

My suggestion to anyone on here who is looking to get a computer for pure sound mixing/recording build it your self.

[1DrumBum]

You are much better off with a firewire interface and a copy of cubase. In my studio setup we used a Mackie Mixer for preamps into an M-Audio 1814 interface into Sonar6. We were able to grab up to 10 tracks at once with the firewire, it made recording drums a pleasant experience. Cubase and Sonar are from the same parent company I believe, so they should have the same multi-track capabilities.

What kind of hard drives did you put in the machine? SATA drives are the fastest, and IMO will give you the best performance. I'm not sure if a laptop was really the way to go, they have a limited amount of space, and your hardware options are also trimmed. For instance, you can only put one drive in a laptop, but you can stack several in a full sized case. Ideally you would want to have a separate drive for recording, so that the program isn't trying to access the same disc you are recording a huge amount of data to. Also, you're better off running Windows XP over Vista. Vista takes up a ton of resources with it's sweet GUI and hefty processes list. XP can run much slimmer and faster.

+1 to never listening to Guitar Center dweebs, those guys are hired mostly for how the look, not what they know or how well they help the consumer.

The laptop is a 2.4 gig dual core with a 120 gig hard drive (not sure if it a SATA or not). It also has an external SoundBlaster card and an external 500 gig hard drive to store all my recorded files so my system runs as fast as possible. It does have Vista (which I hate) but I have deleted anything that was not necessary for recording and have cut down any unnecessary processes that don't need to run. I went with a laptop because I spend a lot of my time away from home and thought it would be nice to be able to work on mixing/editing during some of that time.

I do have a couple of other desktop computers in the house that could handle it if the laptop can't, but I think it should do OK.

On Guitar Center, I have always had an excellent experience in their drum department. I'm very comfortable there and the guys know their stuff. Now the guitar and pro sound departments are the exact opposite. I hate going into those departments. The guys there are arrogant, yet, have not got a clue as to what they are talking about. They will trip over each other to try and sell a $400 mic to someone, but if you just have a cable or a set of guitar strings in your hand, you get ignored. They say they don't get a commission, but they sure act like it. I guess getting big sales boosts their egos more than providing that piece of equipment needed to help the next Jimi Hendrix or Neil Peart get their start. What a shame...

[Cant Get Enough]

Guitar Center is just full of people trying to sell you stuff you don't need. Recording through a computer is the sorryist way ever. I belong to another forum thats supposed to be for recording, unfortunately it's people like yourself trying to figure out how to even get the damm computer to start recording. I started out using analog I have a MX9000 48 channel A/B mixer with direct outs to a hard disk recorder (HD24XR) thats capable of 24 simultaneous tracks at 24/48 or daisychain two at 24/96 and return on mix B and I never have a problem. I can mixdown on mix B to my Masterlink or I can dump the prerecorded tracks into Cubase 4 for mixdown. I never record direct to my computer and If you have the money or the patience to save for one you'll never go wrong with a direct out mixer and the HD24XR You can't email or browse but you can sure record the hell out of any band you want to. Analog mixers and hardware sound way better also.

[rmandelbaum]

I would agree with your point that building a system specifically for the purpose it is is intended for is the way to go, I in fact built mine. My point was that you do need horsepower do have a studio system that can handle multiple tracks with effects and avoid latency.




Vista is a resource pig, if you can I would blow it out and install XP.
Be sure you have shut down all processes that are not needed,

Here is that document I was talking about

http://www.robertmdrums.com/misc_pic...P_Optimize.pdf

I have recorded successfully on a much less powerful laptop then yours so I would think you should be fine. It really is all about setting everything up correctly.

[1DrumBum]

Here is an update on the recording situation:

I sold the laptop and dumped Sony Acid and Audacity. I now have a new desktop, dual core computer with 8 gigs of ram, internal 500 gig hard drive, external 500 gig hard drive, Cubase LE, and 2 Presonus FP-10's daisy-chained together. This gives me 16 inputs to work with at one time (overkill? maybe, but I use 9 when recording the band live) and I have never been happier!

It took a whopping 1/2 hour to set it all up and everything worked perfectly right off the bat! I still have the mixing board, but I think I'm going to get rid of it as I have all the control with Cubase that I need. I wish I would have went this direction to start with, but live and learn. Also, my system is running Vista, but I stripped everything that was not necessary and I do not have any latency issues.

Firewire = good
USB = bad

[pastor_bob]

Congrats on getting your blood pressure back down to an acceptable level 1DB! If it helps, your experience being documented here will help countless others. Thanks!

[Bish]

I still have the mixing board, but I think I'm going to get rid of it as I have all the control with Cubase that I need. I wish I would have went this direction to start with, but live and learn. Also, my system is running Vista, but I stripped everything that was not necessary and I do not have any latency issues.

Firewire = good
USB = bad

Post some pix of the mixer. I might have a buyer.

[CycleDude]

I need a mixer, too.