4 way independence

[ratmycue]

Who has it ? How do you define it? also what cool patterns do you practise to attain it and keep it smooth.

I will start with a routine I use,
A standard samba pattern between the kick and let foot hat, ya know, boom boom chick , boomboom chick, etc etc.
then I will throw in a left hand clave pattern on the snare, The right hand I start with 1/4 or 8th notes just straight ahead . When I want to really fall over [flat on my face ] I will change up the right hand pattern or swap the patterns from left to right hand. or throw in a difficult right hand pattern.

I'm keen to know what you guy's do or if you do?

[bassist learning drums]

Good Thread Rat!!

Since I am still trying to learn the 4 way, I play simple. I work my Hi hat(left foot) and right hand on the ride. Both playing different note values. I add my bass drum, and left hand on the snare. Playing simple beats. I am using a metronome and counting out loud. It seems to be coming along. Just SLOW!

[ratmycue]

Good Thread Rat!!

Since I am still trying to learn the 4 way, I play simple. I work my Hi hat(left foot) and right hand on the ride. Both playing different note values. I add my bass drum, and left hand on the snare. Playing simple beats. I am using a metronome and counting out loud. It seems to be coming along. Just SLOW!

For a new guy, you are doing everything just perfect bld.

[bassist learning drums]

Thanks!!

[Vinnysimmo mk:II]

I used to practice independance this way but nowadays i use it mainly as a nice warm-up.
Start with a stable pulse of single stokes with the feet. Than play all kinds of different things over it. Start with all the usual subdivions with singles on the hands. 4ths 8th 12ths 16ths 32s and so on. Than move on and do the same thing with doubles. When youve gotten really comtorble with that you can try all kinds of different rudiments over it. And to sipce it up you can play different foot patterns os move the pulse to the hands and do different patters with the feet.
Hope that helps some of you, and if you don't understand my fuzzy way of explaining just ask and ill try to explain better.

[DamageDrummer]

rub your belly while patting your head, wiggle your right foot and stomp your left. all at the same time.

[fiacovaz]

I use the same Samba pattern that Rat described and then let my left hand play dotted quarters notes only. Play those around the kit while keeping the other three limbs going as described. It gives the effect of "3" superimposed over the steady "4". When you can get that going then you are at the beginning of doing Poly - rhythmic study.

[Norske]

Me, I just hit things.

[bassist learning drums]

I used to practice independance this way but nowadays i use it mainly as a nice warm-up.
Start with a stable pulse of single stokes with the feet. Than play all kinds of different things over it. Start with all the usual subdivions with singles on the hands. 4ths 8th 12ths 16ths 32s and so on. Than move on and do the same thing with doubles. When youve gotten really comtorble with that you can try all kinds of different rudiments over it. And to sipce it up you can play different foot patterns os move the pulse to the hands and do different patters with the feet.
Hope that helps some of you, and if you don't understand my fuzzy way of explaining just ask and ill try to explain better.

That sounds like Thomas Lang's "matrix".

[livewire80]

very similar to what you described rat. varying the bass on exercises and right hand also to different grooves. These exercises can be used as really cool beats also.

[wallydavid]

Me, I just hit things.

I hear ya brother! I don't really work on it anymore. I don't really play very complex stuff, but sometimes, during rehearsals, I'll work on my left foot.

Lately, I've been switching things up and trying to play 1/4 or 1/8ths with my left foot on the high hat and using my right foot for accents on the bass drum. But whatever I do, I'm throwing it in during songs.

Wally David
http://www.myspace.com/route49band
My Yamaha Stage Custom Kit
Pearl Jupiter Snare
Vintage Zildjian and Sabian Cymbals
Tama Kingbeat pedal
Yamaha and Tama hardware

[STICKSWIZZARDDRAGON]

Who has it ? How do you define it? also what cool patterns do you practise to attain it and keep it smooth.

I will start with a routine I use,
A standard samba pattern between the kick and let foot hat, ya know, boom boom chick , boomboom chick, etc etc.
then I will throw in a left hand clave pattern on the snare, The right hand I start with 1/4 or 8th notes just straight ahead . When I want to really fall over [flat on my face ] I will change up the right hand pattern or swap the patterns from left to right hand. or throw in a difficult right hand pattern.

I'm keen to know what you guy's do or if you do?

***************
HOLA como estas Mi amigo RATMYCUE *CRETIVE ARTISTIC OPEN MINDED DRUMMER (DAT) Within Great Wisdom AWARE-NESS KNOWLEDGE* I use MANY different Kinds of INDEPENDENCE- OR within
the actual INTER-DEPENDENCE-I love this flowing Structured Technique of and within the Flow (FEEL)
using My ONE right foot DUALLIST Triple D-3 pedal doing creating from A Press roll some what more )OPEN) and within a textured accented Flowing feel * while doing this the LEFT FOOT(HI-HAT)(SOCK)
is doing A 3/4 Jazz FEEL WALTZ* as together the sound is VERY DISTINCT *Because I am at the same
time with my Right HAND Creating From the BELL and EDGES of My MANY different CYMBALS (TONES) A LATIN FEEL while this is happening My left hand NOW Creating Very DISTINCT ACCENTED
Rolls from and within the LEFT HAND FAN STROKE of WHICH I created * AND then in-between the PEDALS (THE HI-HAT- AND the DUALLIST ! well just amazing Sounds ARE REALLY FLOWING *
THIS is only (1) one of ! WELL THE INFINITE THINGS within this VERY ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ANCIENT ART form *its all A GREAT* JOURNEY*AND what ever works for the open minded creative artistic ARTIST DRUMMER is ALL GREAT within all their own unique distinct ARTISTRY THEIR JOURNEYS*** Gracias I have alot more to Express within this TOPIC *
FORSURE ITS INFINITE as WHAT CAN be CREATED and EXPRESSED within
THE VERY CREATIVE OPEN MINDED ARTIST DRUMMER**THE JOURNEYS
ARE END-LESS like THE ABYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS**GRACIAS

[livewire80]

***************
HOLA como estas Mi amigo RATMYCUE *CRETIVE ARTISTIC OPEN MINDED DRUMMER (DAT) Within Great Wisdom AWARE-NESS KNOWLEDGE* I use MANY different Kinds of INDEPENDENCE- OR within
the actual INTER-DEPENDENCE-I love this flowing Structured Technique of and within the Flow (FEEL)
using My ONE right foot DUALLIST Triple D-3 pedal doing creating from A Press roll some what more )OPEN) and within a textured accented Flowing feel * while doing this the LEFT FOOT(HI-HAT)(SOCK)
is doing A 3/4 Jazz FEEL WALTZ* as together the sound is VERY DISTINCT *Because I am at the same
time with my Right HAND Creating From the BELL and EDGES of My MANY different CYMBALS (TONES) A LATIN FEEL while this is happening My left hand NOW Creating Very DISTINCT ACCENTED
Rolls from and within the LEFT HAND FAN STROKE of WHICH I created * AND then in-between the PEDALS (THE HI-HAT- AND the DUALLIST ! well just amazing Sounds ARE REALLY FLOWING *
THIS is only (1) one of ! WELL THE INFINITE THINGS within this VERY ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ANCIENT ART form *its all A GREAT* JOURNEY*AND what ever works for the open minded creative artistic ARTIST DRUMMER is ALL GREAT within all their own unique distinct ARTISTRY THEIR JOURNEYS*** Gracias I have alot more to Express within this TOPIC *
FORSURE ITS INFINITE as WHAT CAN be CREATED and EXPRESSED within
THE VERY CREATIVE OPEN MINDED ARTIST DRUMMER**THE JOURNEYS
ARE END-LESS like THE ABYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS**GRACIAS

You are a master cat machine on the drums dragon

[bassist learning drums]

***************
HOLA como estas Mi amigo RATMYCUE *CRETIVE ARTISTIC OPEN MINDED DRUMMER (DAT) Within Great Wisdom AWARE-NESS KNOWLEDGE* I use MANY different Kinds of INDEPENDENCE- OR within
the actual INTER-DEPENDENCE-I love this flowing Structured Technique of and within the Flow (FEEL)
using My ONE right foot DUALLIST Triple D-3 pedal doing creating from A Press roll some what more )OPEN) and within a textured accented Flowing feel * while doing this the LEFT FOOT(HI-HAT)(SOCK)
is doing A 3/4 Jazz FEEL WALTZ* as together the sound is VERY DISTINCT *Because I am at the same
time with my Right HAND Creating From the BELL and EDGES of My MANY different CYMBALS (TONES) A LATIN FEEL while this is happening My left hand NOW Creating Very DISTINCT ACCENTED
Rolls from and within the LEFT HAND FAN STROKE of WHICH I created * AND then in-between the PEDALS (THE HI-HAT- AND the DUALLIST ! well just amazing Sounds ARE REALLY FLOWING *
THIS is only (1) one of ! WELL THE INFINITE THINGS within this VERY ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ANCIENT ART form *its all A GREAT* JOURNEY*AND what ever works for the open minded creative artistic ARTIST DRUMMER is ALL GREAT within all their own unique distinct ARTISTRY THEIR JOURNEYS*** Gracias I have alot more to Express within this TOPIC *
FORSURE ITS INFINITE as WHAT CAN be CREATED and EXPRESSED within
THE VERY CREATIVE OPEN MINDED ARTIST DRUMMER**THE JOURNEYS
ARE END-LESS like THE ABYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS**GRACIAS

Inter-dependence!! That is absolutely right! Your fan stroke always thrills me. It appears as your hand is motionless, yet there is a quick roll happening. That is a technique I would watch, rather than try. Just amazing!

[mapexmetal351]

i love to play the left high hat during long fills going from triplets to 4/4 making sure my left foot clicks accordingly. also i do a llot of ride combinations while using my left foot and usually that helps me with getting it on autopilt. and every once in a while i reach over with my snare hand(left) and add a loose hi hat really quick

[slingerland59]

These are some nice exercises from Simon Phillips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_c4Snp9dLQ

I can quite easily do the pattern with fast paradiddles on the snare (I think of them as eighth notes) and half time paradiddles with the bass pedals (I think of them as quarter notes).

But the fast paradiddles with the bass pedals against the slower hand pattern is a challenge for me. I get the foot pattern going and just tap out quarter notes with my right hand. Then I do the same with my left hand. Then I do the same thing with alternating right and left hand. Then I play double strokes with the hands. And finally I try paradiddles...but I haven't succeeded as yet!

I dig challenges like that. It's something you can do when you're on the bus or sitting around waiting for someone.

[pastor_bob]

Who has it?

BTW, in answer to your first question, I don't have it yet, but I can see it from here.

[Zeta]

A pattern i have been using is quarter note kicks straight through in 4/4 time/ With closing the hi hat on 2 and 4 of that. Then i run through the paradiddles (single double triple) in eight notes right hand on the ride bell, and left on the snare. Every left, left, i play on the first tom.

[ratmycue]

BTW, in answer to your first question, I don't have it yet, but I can see it from here.

I love your honesty PB!! You have 3 way independence though!! eh, I can show you a real easy excersize to get you started,
leftfoot on hats keep a steady 1/4 note going, ride keep a steady 1/8 note going.easy so far right, so all you have to worry about is adding a kick on a the [ands] after one /three. the snare then goes on the [ands after 2/4]. easy and fun.

[ratmycue]

I used to practice independance this way but nowadays i use it mainly as a nice warm-up.
Start with a stable pulse of single stokes with the feet. Than play all kinds of different things over it. Start with all the usual subdivions with singles on the hands. 4ths 8th 12ths 16ths 32s and so on. Than move on and do the same thing with doubles. When youve gotten really comtorble with that you can try all kinds of different rudiments over it. And to sipce it up you can play different foot patterns os move the pulse to the hands and do different patters with the feet.
Hope that helps some of you, and if you don't understand my fuzzy way of explaining just ask and ill try to explain better.

cool stuff vinny, thx for your input man.

[ratmycue]

rub your belly while patting your head, wiggle your right foot and stomp your left. all at the same time.

[ratmycue]

I use the same Samba pattern that Rat described and then let my left hand play dotted quarters notes only. Play those around the kit while keeping the other three limbs going as described. It gives the effect of "3" superimposed over the steady "4". When you can get that going then you are at the beginning of doing Poly - rhythmic study.

Love that sort of stuff Frank, I used to practise lots of poly stuff, any news guy's not sure about rythms within rythms?

[ratmycue]

i love to play the left high hat during long fills going from triplets to 4/4 making sure my left foot clicks accordingly. also i do a llot of ride combinations while using my left foot and usually that helps me with getting it on autopilt. and every once in a while i reach over with my snare hand(left) and add a loose hi hat really quick

thats a cool feel, like a fast 6/8 flowing within a 4/4 measure?

[ratmycue]

These are some nice exercises from Simon Phillips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_c4Snp9dLQ

I can quite easily do the pattern with fast paradiddles on the snare (I think of them as eighth notes) and half time paradiddles with the bass pedals (I think of them as quarter notes).

But the fast paradiddles with the bass pedals against the slower hand pattern is a challenge for me. I get the foot pattern going and just tap out quarter notes with my right hand. Then I do the same with my left hand. Then I do the same thing with alternating right and left hand. Then I play double strokes with the hands. And finally I try paradiddles...but I haven't succeeded as yet!

I dig challenges like that. It's something you can do when you're on the bus or sitting around waiting for someone.

Try these peeps the half time diddles against the faster ones take some getting . Once you have them its cool. thx for the vid man.

[ratmycue]

very similar to what you described rat. varying the bass on exercises and right hand also to different grooves. These exercises can be used as really cool beats also.

You are absolutely correct, and thx again for the study sheet, Im finding some old patterns and sticking I absolutley forgot about!! man I am rusty. that level two has parts that actually hurt your brain!!