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Thread: Guitar Hero For Drum Playing

  1. #1

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    I finally found out how to use the Guitar Hero Game with a real drumkit. By using the Guitar Hero World Tour game(in practice/demo mode), and not having the game drums plugged-in, you can jam to ANY song the game has(or can be downloaded), it's like jamming with your favorite band/song in the comfort of your own home.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnj10mm View Post
    I finally found out how to use the Guitar Hero Game with a real drumkit. By using the Guitar Hero World Tour game(in practice/demo mode), and not having the game drums plugged-in, you can jam to ANY song the game has(or can be downloaded), it's like jamming with your favorite band/song in the comfort of your own home.
    Real musical instruments go with video games like high heels go with full contact kick boxing (IMO).

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    Real musical instruments go with video games like high heels go with full contact kick boxing (IMO).
    Now that has to be a sight!



    I read in my hometown paper about Guitar Hero. I wish I could find it and post it but I can't locate it. Anyway, The article was interviewed with Karl Logan of Manowar. One point he made was that guitar hero only works on downbeats. It can be confusing for a person that wants to learn guitar. Karl said it is a very BAD idea. He said, like a toy, it is supposed to be for fun. He went on to mention other things, but my mind cannot find it, either.

  4. #4

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    You know that is an excellent idea for getting music without drum tracks, practice mode will give you just that and not fail the song. I had never thought of that, only problem with me is I would have to either move the kit into the living room, or turn the stereo up so loud to hear it in this room. My guess would be the neighbors or my wife would like it too much. I'm gonna try it though. haha

    On the other hand, I'm living proof that Guitar Hero or Rock Band will NOT I repeat will NOT teach you how to play a real set. It will not even give you a sense of rhythm. I have Guitar Hero and Rock Band and can 5 star almost every song on expert level on both games. I played the disturbed song on Rock Band 5 times in a row last night on expert level just to get the song fresh in my head, got 5 stars every time, then sat at my kit and tried to play along with the music. Never happened. That was my test to see if there was any way it would work. It didn't. I know alot of people think that they can learn drums from playing the game, all I can say is try it and see.

    The game associates your hands/foot with moving colors and that's it. Playing real drums your hands/feet have to be associated with feeling the music, along with having excellent rhythm, cordination and memory... that's just my opinion.

    That's why my 5 year old son got these for Christmas instead of rock band or guitar hero for his Wii.

    I wanted drums when I was 5 and never got them, I'm glad I got the chance to get them for him. Since he lives in another state and I rarely get to see him, I just hope his mother keeps him in drum lessons, and he keeps his interest.

  5. #5

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    The info I imparted on the thread came directly from a tech for the company that makes Guitar Hero. He is also a veteran drummer and tried it with his kit and home and proved that it did in fact work great with real drums in the demo mode(the whole song without the drum tracks). I told him what i've seen and heard from real drummers on youtube and what they used the game for with a real drumkit and he tested the theory at his basement drum studio. He even thanked me for the heads-up. So, it does work and is an excellent tool with a real drumkit!

  6. #6

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    Well, everybody has their own opinion...that's what makes the world go round. Nothing will ever substitute for the real thing nor in learning how to play it. You want video games...go to an arcade. You want to play drums...find a Teacher and make a commitment.
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

    http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...vaz/TheSet.jpg

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Well, everybody has their own opinion...that's what makes the world go round. Nothing will ever substitute for the real thing nor in learning how to play it. You want video games...go to an arcade. You want to play drums...find a Teacher and make a commitment.
    Frank, you have a great way to put things. Every post has so much insight!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnj10mm View Post
    The info I imparted on the thread came directly from a tech for the company that makes Guitar Hero. He is also a veteran drummer and tried it with his kit and home and proved that it did in fact work great with real drums in the demo mode(the whole song without the drum tracks). I told him what i've seen and heard from real drummers on youtube and what they used the game for with a real drumkit and he tested the theory at his basement drum studio. He even thanked me for the heads-up. So, it does work and is an excellent tool with a real drumkit!
    John, don't take anything personal. This is just one of those subjects that many experienced musicians are passionate about. I too think that there is a bit too much hoopla surrounding these games and how they relate to the "real thing". So while the games might be expandable, it's not going to make a convincing topic in a drum forum filled with "real" drummers. We're just not interested in fake drums or video toys. Not when it comes to being a "real" musician that is.

    Mucho respect!
    - Tom

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  9. #9

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    If I read John's post correctly, he is using the game just like a CD, and he's just jamming to the music (correct John?). I would agree that it could get you started with jamming, but I think it would be very limited because the nuances of the music are lost in the game. Eventually, you'll want to start listening to "real" music, and learning and jamming with that, or you'll want to find other musicians to play with.

    Ultimately, this discussion brings up the very painful question - for all musicians - could musicians be replaced by a processor that simulates the sound. This question will always produce "lively" debate.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  10. #10

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    I found the article i spoke about. I hope it explains better than I tried to!!!


    Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:44 PM EST

    Children wishing to find guitars under their Christmas trees this holiday should specify: wood or plastic?

    Sam Tenney / The Citizen

    Karl Logan, a professional guitar player based in Auburn, gives The Citizen's David Wilcox a guitar lesson Wednesday afternoon.
    The popularity of rhythm video games from the “Guitar Hero” and “Rock Band” franchises has placed fake guitars in the hands of countless role-playing rockers. I've slung my own plastic axe over my shoulder to review five of these titles in less than two years of covering video games for The Citizen.

    A billion-dollar branch of the video games industry, rhythm games map sequences of multi-colored notes to rock hits ranging from “Paint it Black” by the Rolling Stones to “Enter Sandman” by Metallica. As the notes scroll down the screen, players must frantically match their fingers to the correct frets on a plastic guitar neck while flicking the instrument's strum bar.

    Since the first “Guitar Hero” brought the genre to popular awareness in late 2005, real musicians have reacted with mixed emotions. Aerosmith and the Beatles' Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr collaborated with the publishers of “Guitar Hero” and “Rock Band” on editions consisting of their music exclusively. Chad Kroeger of Nickelback and John Mayer have shown less warmth toward the games; the latter told Rolling Stone in June, “'Guitar Hero' was devised to bring the guitar-playing experience to the masses without them having to put anything into it.'”

    Other musicians have yet to judge the games' burgeoning role in the music industry or their influence on the people who play them. After reading my “Guitar Hero World Tour” review, professional guitarist Karl Logan, of Auburn, challenged me to learn a few fundamentals of the instrument and share my impressions as an “expert” player of its plastic facsimile. He also conveyed a healthy curiosity about rhythm games when he agreed to try his virtuosic hands at my copy of “Rock Band 2” and discuss how the real thing compares to the virtual.

    Following a successful “performance” of The Guess Who's “American Woman” on medium difficulty - a rarity among first-time rhythm game players - Logan explained to me the inaccuracy of “Rock Band 2's” note design. The green, red and yellow parts he played comprise only the downbeat, which contrasts the rhythm of the actual guitar part, he said.

    “It's kind of like going to England and learning to drive on the wrong side of the road,” said Logan, who has played guitar for crowds of more than 20,000 and recorded on albums that went gold in Germany.

    About the game, he added, “I'm playing more of what the drums would play.”

    In response, I told Logan that rhythm game designers often take musical liberties when marrying songs to software. Melodies are sometimes programmed as chord sequences and guitar parts may meld bass or even piano lines into their note matrices. Though in the case of Logan's observation, higher difficulty settings - which multiply the note count - may approximate the actual guitar part with more accuracy.

    Logan shared a concern that the skewed note design of guitar games could trip up students of real guitar by constructing false associations between their actions and the sounds they produce. For this reason, he said, most musicians he knows who've attempted “Guitar Hero” or “Rock Band” have failed to adapt to the games.

    Seasoned players of those games who pick up a real guitar may also be prone to handling it poorly, Logan said. If new guitarists approach the instrument as they would its plastic incarnation, they may position their fretting wrists incorrectly, grasp the top of the neck too tightly or struggle to master the subtleties of picking strings.

    “The basic framework of playing guitar is present, but there's none of the instruction or incentive to play it as a real instrument,” said Logan, who teaches guitar locally.

    With such obstacles possibly awaiting new guitarists, Logan fears that “Guitar Hero” and “Rock Band” players accustomed to speedy progression may be stifled by the steeper learning curve of the actual instrument. Should they scale it, he said, guitar students will earn an enduring gift.

    “There's no substitute for having talent or committing to something that brings a reward,” Logan said. “It kept me off the streets when I was young.”

    In the absence of research or even anecdotal evidence to confirm Logan's suspicions about guitar games' effect on potential musicians, he padded his remarks with reserve. His uncertainty slightly lessened, for the better, when I picked up Logan's six-string for my first guitar lesson since eighth grade.

    Guiding my hands into proper position around a real guitar required some subversion of instincts formed during several hours of hugging a fake one. The delicacy of fretting and picking was another source of difficulty. I couldn't gracelessly smear my left fingers across fret buttons the size of gum sticks while slapping the strum bar with my right thumb. As my eyes flittered along the strings from the real guitar's neck to its body, I cautiously pressed and picked with the absolute tips of my fingers.

    By my second or third beginning exercise, playing the guitar felt like its own activity, both accessible and free of transplanted habits from plastic mimicry. Logan reflected a brightening outlook toward rhythm games by telling me there may be hope for me yet as a real guitar player.

  11. #11

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    Here's a pic of Karl:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12

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    Thank you Pastor Bob!!! You are the only one who got what I was trying to say. I believe in using it just for music to jam to in the backround, kind of like the lay it down cd's you've mentioned before. I NEVER said that it was a substitute for real drums or lessons. I just mentioned it as just having some really awesome music to jam with. I take lessons and practice and play the usual way, the game just makes it better to jam by myself. Once again...THANK YOU Pastor Bob for getting it!

  13. #13

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    Cool discovery dude, well done.



    Official cowbell hater.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by campbellj25 View Post
    ... my 5 year old son got these for Christmas instead of rock band or guitar hero for his Wii.

    I wanted drums when I was 5 and never got them, I'm glad I got the chance to get them for him. Since he lives in another state and I rarely get to see him, I just hope his mother keeps him in drum lessons, and he keeps his interest.
    Awesome gift Campbellj25! I think that's the best we can do as parents is to give our kids an opportunity to learn and play the drums.

    I thought I'd have four drummers in my house but my three kids are not showing much interest. They are still young and may change their minds, but I have lessened my grip on my fantasy drum expectations.

    Now I'm thinking some day I might have a family jam band! My daughter rocks out with the microphone on Rock Band and one of my sons digs the guitar tracks. If nothing else, they have been introduced to good music and to the concept of playing in a band.

  15. #15

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    I have to disagree somewhat with some of the posts here. I've played Rock Band on drums and found it to be somewhat accurate BUT...and this is a big BUT...every kit I played on needed to be calibrated properly before I could get ANYWHERE with it. As a drummer, I'm obviously used to playing the rhythm of the song that nothing visually really triggers my playing and I found that, before calibration, the kits were way off. But once, I calibrated the set I was playing 16th notes on the hi-hat, 2 and 4 on snare and 1 and 3 on kick to REM's Orange Crush. I wasn't even watching the screen. Just playing along like I was sitting at my kit.
    Kits
    DW Performance(white marine): 8x7/10x8/12x9/16x14/22x18
    Gretsch Renown '57(Motor City Onyx): 10x8/12x9/16x16/22x18/14x6.5

    Snares
    Pork Pie 14x7 Cherry/Bubinga
    Pearl 13x5.5 Sensitone Brass
    Homemade 14"x5.5" Maple(10 ply Keller)

    Cymbals
    Paiste
    14" 2002 med/heavy hats
    18" Giant Beat multi
    18" Sig Full crash
    20" 505 heavy ride

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by campbellj25 View Post



    I wanted drums when I was 5 and never got them, I'm glad I got the chance to get them for him. Since he lives in another state and I rarely get to see him, I just hope his mother keeps him in drum lessons, and he keeps his interest.
    , this hits close to home bud, I was forced onto piano in my early early years!! I hated it and even though it gave ma a great foundation, I was never completely happy until I switched to the kit, that took a lot of tears and complaing with my old man, [ why do ya want to be a drummer stuck way at the back of the band etc etc] geeze!! Make sure your son is able to choose the instrument of his choice.



    Official cowbell hater.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnj10mm View Post
    I finally found out how to use the Guitar Hero Game with a real drumkit. By using the Guitar Hero World Tour game(in practice/demo mode), and not having the game drums plugged-in, you can jam to ANY song the game has(or can be downloaded), it's like jamming with your favorite band/song in the comfort of your own home.
    I'm assuming I can do the same thing with our Rock Band set up. I'll definitely try it. My drums are in an adjoining room to the kids' tv room where we have Rock Band installed. I might be able to hook up a really long chord for my headphones...hmmm.

    I'm guessing the metre is perfect on the tunes, which will help me with timing. I'll check them with a metronome first. And I do dig a lot of the songs (we have the supplementary disc as well). Thanks for the idea!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkennedy View Post
    I have to disagree somewhat with some of the posts here. I've played Rock Band on drums and found it to be somewhat accurate BUT...and this is a big BUT...every kit I played on needed to be calibrated properly before I could get ANYWHERE with it. As a drummer, I'm obviously used to playing the rhythm of the song that nothing visually really triggers my playing and I found that, before calibration, the kits were way off. But once, I calibrated the set I was playing 16th notes on the hi-hat, 2 and 4 on snare and 1 and 3 on kick to REM's Orange Crush. I wasn't even watching the screen. Just playing along like I was sitting at my kit.
    Please explain mkennedy. What do you mean by the need for calibration and how is it done? If it's too technical, then maybe you can point me to the relevant pages in the manual. I have Rock Band. It took me a while to understand the method, but then I too soon got locked into the basic beats. But I'm guessing your suggestion would make things easier.

  19. #19

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    I also got what you were saying about drumless tracks also John, which is why I want to try it now. I was just ramblin on like I usually do about stuff that doesn't really matter, but I just wanted to test the other stuff out and it didn't work for me, it was like my mythbusters episode for myself.

    If you are a drummer and already have excellent rhythm that makes the game just easier to play. Yes it is a toy, we all know that, it's no substitute for the real thing, but I have to admit it is a heck of alot of fun while having a party with a lot of people over because I think everyone or the majority of people have dreamed of being in a rock and roll band while growing up at one point or another, and when a group of people are playing and another group watching and laughing, it just creates fun times.

    My wife has no interest at all in playing any instrument, but she will get involved with the game at parties, which is fun for the both of us.

    I am pretty sure, but don't quote me, I think the game makers activision and red octane have got the rights from every artist that is on the game to have the origional music so they can divide the tracks individually. ie if your doing the drums and you quit playing, the drum tracks go away, or if you only miss one note, that note doesn't register and you don't hear it in the music.

    John is on the right track though for getting drumless music, which in my opinion can be difficult to find for particular songs. If you have surround sound and can play your tv, without actually having your tv on, you could do just what John said, set up a set list on practice mode, turn your tv off and just hear the music, without drums, and start jamming.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratmycue View Post
    , this hits close to home bud, I was forced onto piano in my early early years!! I hated it and even though it gave ma a great foundation, I was never completely happy until I switched to the kit, that took a lot of tears and complaing with my old man, [ why do ya want to be a drummer stuck way at the back of the band etc etc] geeze!! Make sure your son is able to choose the instrument of his choice.
    This is what I did. Since I rarely get to see him like I said, I had my ex wife take him to guitar center, and let him look at and hold most of the instruments in the store. She also had employees from every department play and show him just how cool each instrument could be, so he could decide for himself which one he wanted. He chose drums on his own, he could have chosen guitar, bass, trumpet, sax, violin, piano.

    I was in the same situation when I was young, I was forced to play trumpet which I did for years, learned alot, but was always sneaking off in band class to the drum kit and hanging out with the drummers. I eventually went to the drumline in the band on snare and quads, but it also took alot of fighting with my parents. That's why I let him choose.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by slingerland59 View Post
    Please explain mkennedy. What do you mean by the need for calibration and how is it done? If it's too technical, then maybe you can point me to the relevant pages in the manual. I have Rock Band. It took me a while to understand the method, but then I too soon got locked into the basic beats. But I'm guessing your suggestion would make things easier.
    You have to calibrate the rock band kit, with your television. It's an option in the menu of the game. If you have a HDTV which most people do now days, it creates lag from the game to the tv, in other words, what you are seeing and hearing from the tv, might not be sync'd up together when you actually hit the pad and the game receives the signal from the pad. Go to options or settings in the game, go to calibration and follow the on screen instructions and from there the game will do the rest. Hope I didn't confuse you more.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by campbellj25 View Post
    You know that is an excellent idea for getting music without drum tracks, practice mode will give you just that and not fail the song. I had never thought of that, only problem with me is I would have to either move the kit into the living room, or turn the stereo up so loud to hear it in this room. My guess would be the neighbors or my wife would like it too much. I'm gonna try it though. haha

    On the other hand, I'm living proof that Guitar Hero or Rock Band will NOT I repeat will NOT teach you how to play a real set. It will not even give you a sense of rhythm. I have Guitar Hero and Rock Band and can 5 star almost every song on expert level on both games. I played the disturbed song on Rock Band 5 times in a row last night on expert level just to get the song fresh in my head, got 5 stars every time, then sat at my kit and tried to play along with the music. Never happened. That was my test to see if there was any way it would work. It didn't. I know alot of people think that they can learn drums from playing the game, all I can say is try it and see.

    The game associates your hands/foot with moving colors and that's it. Playing real drums your hands/feet have to be associated with feeling the music, along with having excellent rhythm, cordination and memory... that's just my opinion.

    That's why my 5 year old son got these for Christmas instead of rock band or guitar hero for his Wii.

    I wanted drums when I was 5 and never got them, I'm glad I got the chance to get them for him. Since he lives in another state and I rarely get to see him, I just hope his mother keeps him in drum lessons, and he keeps his interest.
    You are the man! Outstanding job, dad! Just remember, he has to pick his dream for himself. He's a lucky kid if that dream happens to be becoming a musician, though. Right on for the both of you and merry Christmas.

    As to a paid foctory rep claiming his product is relevant to musicians, am I the only one who sees the conflict of interest there? Reminds me of the bald guys on the spray-on hair commercials, "This stuff is great!".

    And regarding those who claim to have become a real musician through a video game (don't take this personally anyone), that argument might hurt your credibility amongst real musicians (IMO).

    Real musicians being replaced by machines? Ever notice it's always some tone-deaf retard who can't clap in time who thinks music is no big deal?

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    ...And regarding those who claim to have become a real musician through a video game (don't take this personally anyone), that argument might hurt your credibility amongst real musicians (IMO).

    Real musicians being replaced by machines? Ever notice it's always some tone-deaf retard who can't clap in time who thinks music is no big deal?
    That's offensive language and tone, man. I don't think you should get away with it, no matter how you try to qualify it. This is supposed to be a fun place.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by slingerland59 View Post
    That's offensive language and tone, man. I don't think you should get away with it, no matter how you try to qualify it. This is supposed to be a fun place.
    Actually, you can't hear my tone on an internet forum, unless I post a video or something. You're free to infer whatever tone you like, though.

    If mocking those who say real drummers can be replaced by machines is offensive on a website dedicated to real drummers, then I'm guilty of being offensive.

    I can't answer for you, but personally, I have a lot of fun here, even when I'm talking about the difference between watching ER and being a real doctor, going to a shooting gallery and being a SWAT team member, or playing Rock Band and being a real musician.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris View Post
    Actually, you can't hear my tone on an internet forum, unless I post a video or something. You're free to infer whatever tone you like, though.

    If mocking those who say real drummers can be replaced by machines is offensive on a website dedicated to real drummers, then I'm guilty of being offensive.

    I can't answer for you, but personally, I have a lot of fun here, even when I'm talking about the difference between watching ER and being a real doctor, going to a shooting gallery and being a SWAT team member, or playing Rock Band and being a real musician.
    I totally agree with RD, and his great comparison examples.

    Not that i am knocking the games in any kind of way. I have Rock Band for my Wii, but when i use it, i sing. I don't like the drums, or the plastic guitar, that's just me. I prefer my real instruments in the basement.
    There's nothing wrong with having fun with the games, but we have went through this whole argument once before about whether the games are beneficial, detrimental, etc.

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