mid level to high level

[RHD03]

You don't need to defend DW, they are fine drums in every aspect. The points I usually bring up (devils advocate style) is that if someone declares a brand to be "the best" or says "night and day" I can counter it with an alternative and give reasons why. Microphones and tuning levels the playing field for all drums sonically. The only time I'd say I have really heard a night and day difference would be in person, a yamaha rydeen vs oak custom. The sounds are vastly different, and tuning won't make the rydeen sound like the oak. But maple vs maple is a close call.

I won't even start with vintage high end vs modern or Keller DW vs DW made shells. It's all good. I just don't like excess when it comes to personal or magazine reviews regarding the actual difference, vs personal bias. SMX use the masters shells, and should have a similar potential as masters for sound. (die cast vs 2.3 hoops notwithstanding). I'd say as is, the smx are probably 90% of the masters sound, not 50% like certain forums like to claim. It all comes back the the influence of tuning, drumheads and acoustics.

I don't think I have ever met someone who wouldn't want a DW if they could afford it.

I hear ya, and it's all good. I should have said IMHO, they sound night and day to ME.

[Yoda]

I have a Pdp MX (maple). Ive always wanted DWs ever since I started to delve into the world of drumming. I bought the Pdp because it was the next closest thing to a DW. I was going to buy a wrap kit but when I saw the Emerald fade I didnt care that it came with less drums, that would be the finish I would get on my custom DWs, so the finish sold me on that set.

I went to GC to pick up an 8" add on tom for my kit and had my first chance to play a DW kit. I looked at the prices on the idividual DW drums and almost died....theres no way I could EVER afford a DW. I banged around on it for a while and.......they sound almost identical to my Pdps. I didnt get to spend a huge amount of time with them, but to me they sounded just like my Pdps.

So for the price of one DW tom, you could buy a whole Pdp kit and get the same sound (IMO).

[drumdeano]

12x20 bass? what did that sound like?

I have a Emad batter / Aquarian Ported front head and it sounds fat. Not at all like an 18" ,although nothing like a 18x22.The 12' depth really doesnt make a difference.I have a 16x20 DW kick w/ the same heads and it sounds close.With the shallow toms I use a 16x16 bag,put the 14" on the bottom,Place a piece of foam and then the 10" and put my seat on the top. W/ a 4 piece kit I have just kick,snare,cymbal / hardware and 1 tom bag.

[kaosotis]

I hear ya, and it's all good. I should have said IMHO, they sound night and day to ME.

And going back to your point that the DW's are worth the money, I'm sure they are amazing drums. My big pet peeve is there seems to be a consistent pattern in advice that you always buy the most expensive kit you can. But that presumes the every buyer feels that's important, so I think it would be beneficial to give a variety of views when we give advice.

The question then becomes is it always the best decision for everyone to buy the most expensive kit they can, and of course it isn't. It's a personal choice where you have to weigh cost, your budget, what you are really using them for, how much having the "best" means to you, etc...

As with everything this is just my opinion, but I hope newer drummers that join DC looking for buying advice don't feel that if they can't get drums above a certain level they should feel bad about what they can afford.

[2slow]

I would really like to get together with a bunch of drummers and have a few sets to be played by a pro sight unseen without anyone even knowing what sets were gonna be played and see who could pick the high end sets based on the true acouctic sound (no effects) of the drums.

[kaosotis]

Interesting thought. When they do stuff like that with other products, it usually turns out that people are significantly biased by brand name. That might be the case with sound, but like with cars you can definitely tell the difference in hardware quality, etc... among kits.

[Northern Redneck]

I don't think I have ever met someone who wouldn't want a DW if they could afford it.

Yes you have

[kaosotis]

Ah, but would you buy higher end Tamas is the real question?

[yohin]

Ah, but would you buy higher end Tamas is the real question?

[RHD03]

And going back to your point that the DW's are worth the money, I'm sure they are amazing drums. My big pet peeve is there seems to be a consistent pattern in advice that you always buy the most expensive kit you can. But that presumes the every buyer feels that's important, so I think it would be beneficial to give a variety of views when we give advice.

And I also said that I don't feel like defending them. And it wasn't the most expensive kit I could afford. I was originally looking at Pearl Reference...THAT would have been expensive. I went with these because they were cheaper and I thought they sounded great.

This is all different from drummer to drummer. Unlike a lot of you on here who seem to have this vast knowledge of all these different kits on the market, I can only speak of my own experience with different kits. And that is not a slam on anyone, but I will be the first to tell you that my technical knowledge is limited...and I'm ok with that.

[Northern Redneck]

Ah, but would you buy higher end Tamas is the real question?

Not at this stage in my career. My SS's are more than adequate for the clubs Im playing. They look great and they sound great. So Id rather have the extra money in my pocket, than in Tama's.

[Russ]

anyone who says they wouldnt get higher end tamas if they could either doesnt have the money to or is kidding themselves

[Northern Redneck]

anyone who says they wouldnt get higher end tamas if they could either doesnt have the money to or is kidding themselves

Or understands a good financial decision wins over an emotional decision. Sometimes you have to look at the cost/reward ratio.

[topdog63]

I think everyone has good points here. I don't have a lot of experiance with any kits other than my exports which are considered entry level. I have good heads (Aquarian studio x) on them and they are tuned to the way I like them. I have had opportunities to play higher end kits and they sounded like garbage to me. But the person who owned the kits thought they sounded great. As far as sound goes, I think a good protion of that is in the ear of the beholder. As has been said several times the sound is a personal choice but what your paying for is overall quality.cheap kits can sound great and pro-level kits can sound like garbage. Its all preferance and what you can afford.

[pastor_bob]

Or understands a good financial decision wins over an emotional decision. Sometimes you have to look at the cost/reward ratio.

I agree you NR.

You and KO make great points that selection is up to the individual drummer. There are just too make factors that go into making a decision, and only the one person knows exactly what those factors will be for them. For some it could be the brand name (right now, I like Gretsch because it's what I know from my limited experience), for some it is simply a price point, for others it is the look of the kit (a certain finish, of the size of a kit), and for still others only the sound of a kit is the deciding factor. We all make the best decisions for us, and who is to say that it wasn't a perfect decision, given what is important to each of us?

[kaosotis]

Perfectly said PB.

RHD I hope you don't think I was judging your decision. Nothing of the sort. As PB said, the decisions are always personal.

[nio]

Very cool thread...I've been thinking about this for a while now, but have not actually pulled the trigger. My "too practical" wife keeps making me think about it. After reading the posts here, I have to agree that its really just a personal preference to get a higher end drum set. I cannot honestly say that when I played those Renowns at GC, that they sound that much better. So, I think I will take the advise from some of you and keep what I have. Anyway, If I had the higher end set, I don't think I would use it for giggin. I probably keep it setup in my music room...stare at it...dust it everyday...and take some pics with me playing on it.

[backtodrum]

My feeling for what little it is worth would be; drums are meant to be played and I would never buy a kit that I would be afraid to gig with and only want to set it up at home. Some of the places I have played in the past I would not want a real nice kit there, so therefore it is a mid line kit and pro cymbals for me and I am proud to play them and not worry too much about them.

[nucjd]

Wow hot thread.

My experience. I have recorded with Tama superstars, Gretsch, and Ludwig sets as well as many different snares in the past. One thing I really notice is what the shell is made out of and how the shell is made more important than the brand. I am currently recording with my DW set (maple VLT) and it sounds great. It is a combo of issues that effect the sound, just as important as the kit is the room acoustics. I can take the best set in the world and it will sound like dog crap in the wrong acoustically environment and vice versa. Next is mic's and finally the recording equipment. Heads have a lot to do with it as well as tuning.

We seem to forget the environment we play in has a huge role in sound. Question... Why does a kit in guitar center sound so good. Is it the kit or is it the 20 foot high ceiling and a large room with very few right angles and acoustic tiles in the ceiling? Just something to think about.

[Imperialstar]

I hear ya, and it's all good. I should have said IMHO, they sound night and day to ME.

Naturally! And my friend's yellow fiberglass kit has the same thing on top of his 2 DW kits...it's not even close! I was amazed at how small his collectors kits sounded by compare. And you would not believe how much more powerful a bubinga stave kit is than a Dw! But that's a different topic.

Maybe I can break this down in a brand-free generic manner.

Intermediate kit: The shell is likely to be made of looser grained (lower cost) Asian woods, sometimes mixed with higher quality woods like North American rock maple (harvested in Canada) or Scandanavian birch. This isn't always a negative, because mixed woods in the right shell construction often result in a musical sounding shell. These shells are usually, but not always less resonant than high end shells if at least by a narrow margin. This means less sustain (midrange), less low end, and maybe less cut for a smaller overall performance envelope. While the shell construction is first rate, the finish does not have as many layers of the basic paint and clearcoat, nor is the finish as deep and lustrous as high end. This means a nice, but not furniture grade finish. The hardware included is not likely to be gold plated or as elaborate as a high end kit. The result is a kit that is close to a high end kit, but not quite.



High end kit: Only select woods are used of the highest quality to create the shell in the most elaborate and expensive process. Even when mixed woods are used, the grades are closely inspected for a specific use. In the case these shells, they generally have a longer, cleaner sustain than lower cost shells. These shells may have a variety of extra touches and come in different thickness, ratio and composition. The finishes are virtually always more layers of higher grade paint and clearcoat which are usually more thoroughly hand-sanded and buffed between coats so that the final effect is a much greater depth of finish. Wraps, veneers and finish plies may be of expensive glass glitters or exotic woods which also carry an elaborate finish. Hardware may be gold plated using exotic or elaborate technologies too expensive to include in an intermediate priced kit. Sometimes these shells are crafted to-order only composed of exotic and often very expensive woods. Shells in this category may be constructed using more elaborate, time consuming and labor intensive means. They are turned out at a significantly slower rate than mass-production intermediate kits and therefore are less likely to have defects. There are no compromises made for these drums.

It's 4:30 am, so I hope I covered the important points between the two.